Apple: A Message to Our Customers (Apple vs FBI saga)

[Aura]

Letter: https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Summary of what's happening: http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-must-to-help-fbi-unlock-san-bernardino-gunmans-phone-judge/

Good summary of both sides point of view (pro/con): http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-vs-the-fbi-this-may-not-be-a-war-apple-can-win/

Posting this thread because I believe that this needs to be discussed and it hasn't been posted yet.

Thoughts?

[David H. Lipman]

I think Apple should create a bypass for the 10 failed decryption attempts that would have otherwise deleted the data.  They don't have to make a permanent solution.  Just a transitory one for "this" case under the current Court Order.

 

If Apple does not, I would support a boycott of Apple products and the CEO should be found in contempt and serve time.

[AdvancedSetup]

I'm 110% on Apple's side. That there is even a debate blows my mind.

 

The underlying code supposedly  uses AES so multiple attempts at decrypting it would not succeed unless the Government has that ability (which they do not publicly admit) so by only wanting to prevent the bricking of the system would seem to indicate they're showing their hand that they do have the ability to decrypt AES - great, another useless encryption and quantum computing isn't even here yet.

 

It's even beyond technology. Its a matter of principle too as Tim Cook tries to point out. At what point do you draw the line as to what the Government can do? Because you're okay with this technology issue what about something else in the future that is dear to your heart and everyone turns a blind eye and says you're just being non patriotic and need to comply.

[Firefox]

This could go either way....

 

But I will probably side with Apple on this one as well.  They already know the guy is guilty as charged, they don't need the info from the phone.  I believe they already know who he has been talking to anyway.

 

I agree with what Ron stated above.... the Govt has shown their hand.... Also I would not doubt it if Apple already has something in place to actually do this, but if they would do it then they too would be showing their hand.

[pondus]

JOHN MCAFEE: I'll decrypt the San Bernardino phone free of charge so Apple doesn't need to place a back door on its product

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2?IR=T

[David H. Lipman]

McAfee has a "bone" to pick with Apple.
 
EXIF Data May Have Revealed Location of Fugitive Software Tycoon John McAfee - December 3, 2012
 
A kind of a contradiction here concerning Apple.  How was his privacy protected when a picture contained GPS coordinates of his location?
 
Fugitive John McAfee arrested by police in Guatemala - CNET

[sman]

Cybersecurity pioneer http://www.cnbc.com/id/100315476wants authorities to stay away from http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/AAPL's encryption, so much that he has offered to personally crack the iPhone used by one of the shooters in last year's San Bernardino, California, attack.

 

The McAfee antivirus software creator and outspoken libertarian fears that Apple's compliance could lead to a so-called backdoor for government access, leaving users more vulnerable to malicious hackers. He claims that handling it himself would leave consumers safer.

 

"There has never been a backdoor that has not been hacked into by bad hackers or foreign nations. So really, what the government is asking Apple to do is to make every individual who uses an iPhone susceptible to hacking by bad people," McAfee argued on CNBC's http://www.cnbc.com/power-lunch-cnbc/on Friday.

 

McAfee, a self-described "cybersecurity legend" and presidential hopeful, first offered to decrypt the iPhone in a Thursday opinion piece on Business Insider.

 

CNBC full coverage in "http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/19/john-mcafee-fbi-should-let-me-hack-iphone.html"

[sman]

 

Google, WhatsApp, and Microsoft have leapt into the turbulent wake Apple left when CEO Tim Cook said the company was refusing White House demands to unlock an encrypted iPhone used by one of the terrorists responsible for the attack in San Bernardino, California.

On Wednesday, Cook posted an open letter to customers saying that Apple’s been cooperating with the FBI, supplying the bureau with the information it can technically turn over.

But the government’s demanding information that the company simply doesn’t have, he said.

Giving the government the type of information it’s demanding would entail building “something we consider too dangerous to create,” Cook wrote:

They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.

Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software – which does not exist today – would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.

Countless fists throughout the internet pumped the air.

On Wednesday, Google CEO Sundar Pichai posted five tweets in support of Cook’s message.

 

read on in ..https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/02/19/google-whatsapp-microsoft-back-apples-defiance-on-encryption-order/

[nukecad]

It bothers me that everytime a government (not just the US) wants to errode our civil liberties they are using the excuse that it's to 'combat terrorism'.

History has seen this before; it was called the 'Riechstag Fire Decree' and the 'terrorists' in that case where the German Communist Party.

We all know what that decree led to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire_Decree

[pondus]

Bill Gates backs FBI

 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/23/bill-gates-fbi-apple-san-bernardino-killer-phone

 

http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/22/apple-encryption-fbi-facebook-poll/

 

http://www.people-press.org/2016/02/22/more-support-for-justice-department-than-for-apple-in-dispute-over-unlocking-iphone/

[AdvancedSetup]

Now they come forward with many more phones they want this "fix" to let them into. Basically confirming exactly what Tim Cook said.

Talk about public manipulation, dictated by a political system. I believe they call it Propaganda
 

 

derogatory

information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

[pondus]

U.S. succeeds in cracking Apple's iPhone, drops legal action

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-idUSKCN0WU1RF

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/feds-break-through-seized-iphone-stand-down-in-legal-battle-with-apple/

 

[Aura]

Well, now the FBI can basically hack their way into at least an iPhone 5C (less secure than an iPhone 5 or 5S, but still), that's something.

[John L. Galt]

Any takers on a bet that Apple releases a patch to current devices changing the encryption?

[AdvancedSetup]

I would do it and do it silently. But again - the prevent bricking code is not the same code as the drive encryption. The fact that the FBI (with the help of DHS) can decrypt an AES encrypted drive tells you something if you're paying attention. The question is, was it a direct hack on the AES or a side attack from some other flaw in the implementation that Apple used. We'll probably never know for sure as they'll keep that part quiet but if I were Apple I'd be checking into it myself to see if it needs shoring up.

 

[John L. Galt]

Yeah, that is why I specifically mentioned an update changing the encryption.  Not the key, the methodology.

And it actually sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.  On the one hand, if it was a direct attack via AES, then why go through all the posturing of creating the lawsuit?

OTOH, in order to make it look like they found some other vulnerability (as you make reference to), that may be exactly why they went through the entire rigmarole of the lawsuit in the first place.

Care to hedge your bets on which one I believe it is?

Furthermore, within the next week or so I also bet that we'll all of a sudden see a new article in the tech world about how Apple's security is 'flawed' which 'allowed' the FBI to hack the hone in the first place, drawing yet more attention away from the fact that Option 1 is the correct answer after all.

Watch.

[AdvancedSetup]

Possibly so. Bottom line I think they got called out and sort of lost on it in that my belief is that they wanted 100% whole hog full access anytime anywhere to any phone and used the shooting issues as a propaganda tool of fear (crazy how so many even in the technical field were and are more than willing to destroy an entire infrastructure over this) that worked a bit too well, to gain that access. Lord help us if something bigger like 911 comes up again as you can bet your bottom dollar the entire Technical World and Courts will cave in and bid the devil his due (how man never seems to learn from history).  I think DHS already knew/knows how to bypass AES on at least certain devices if not all - their only fear was the 10 count auto wipe feature. Once they listened to the security community as a whole and not just to themselves their eyes were opened to a few means for bypassing the auto brick feature.

Technology that was supposed to make our lives more simple and easy has made our lives more complex and cold I think. Certainly some great things and growth have come with technology but when families sit at a table and everyone is looking at tablets and smart phones instead of talking with each other, one has to wonder how better off are we really ??

 

[John L. Galt]

13 hours ago, AdvancedSetup said:

Possibly so. Bottom line I think they got called out and sort of lost on it in that my belief is that they wanted 100% whole hog full access anytime anywhere to any phone and used the shooting issues as a propaganda tool of fear (crazy how so many even in the technical field were and are more than willing to destroy an entire infrastructure over this) that worked a bit too well, to gain that access. Lord help us if something bigger like 911 comes up again as you can bet your bottom dollar the entire Technical World and Courts will cave in and bid the devil his due (how man never seems to learn from history).  I think DHS already knew/knows how to bypass AES on at least certain devices if not all - their only fear was the 10 count auto wipe feature. Once they listened to the security community as a whole and not just to themselves their eyes were opened to a few means for bypassing the auto brick feature.

It was bad enough after 9/11 as it is.  They definitely have a good bit of that in place already, it's called DHS + the Patriot  Act + The NSA.  I agree that they already know - and I think that is also one of the reasons for much more stringent restrictions on exportation of software with cryptography being used to certain countries.

 

13 hours ago, AdvancedSetup said:

Technology that was supposed to make our lives more simple and easy has made our lives more complex and cold I think. Certainly some great things and growth have come with technology but when families sit at a table and everyone is looking at tablets and smart phones instead of talking with each other, one has to wonder how better off are we really ??

Totally agree.  No devices allowed at my dinner table anymore.  On one hand, I love it - people with mutual interested from around he world are able to collaborate without the need to be in the same locale as everyone else.  I recently saw a new app that allows people to jam together over the Internet.  Obviously still in Beta, and it will depend upon a lot of factors, including network reliability and traffic at each person's location, but still!  Now, an aspiring band looking for a guitarist doesn't have to travel across the country for a preliminary jam session to see if there is a fit or not.  That is incredible, just as painters can do so with digital paintings and, soon, even sculptors may be able to collaborate  in the future with 3D printers.  But, seeing things like Facebook being used to tell the world that you're depressed, or that you found a new fart joke, or that you think liberals are idiots, well, not so much a fan of.

I love the Internet and the connectivity to disseminate raw information.  I hate that it has not gone nearly as far as I had hoped it would to reduce the idiotic myopia of close-minded individuals.  But this whole idea of Big Brother watching you is getting old, and our government needs to stop trying ot subvert our rights in the same of safety and preservation.

[pondus]

FBI spills iPhone hacking secret to senators

http://www.cnet.com/news/fbi-spills-iphone-hacking-secret-to-senators/?ftag=CAD1acfa04&bhid=19917032625079717126003489967847

[pondus]

FBI director: We bought 'a tool' to hack terrorist's iPhone

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/07/technology/fbi-iphone-hack-san-bernardino/

 

New bill would require companies to decrypt data on demand

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11203928/feinstein-burr-encryption-bill-required-to-unlock-data

[AdvancedSetup]

When will Feinstein just retire already. Give the rest of us a break.

 

[AdvancedSetup]

LOL, I love this post from someone about it.

Our problem as a nation is not with encryption; it is that we have politicians like Diane Feinstein.

[bluegiraffe]

Here in the UK not too dissimilar rumblings have been going about government giving more spying powers to the security services in terms of being able to monitor phones and email etc... - a so called Snoopers Charter.  I feel Apple are right but so also are the FBI. As a law abiding citizen I have nothing to hide. If I thought we were winning the war on terror I would be wholly on the side of Apple. But we are not.  And we won't unless we try to not only keep up, but keep one step ahead. 

 

 

[AdvancedSetup]

Well I won't go into the propaganda of terrorism as anything that upset more than a few people now days seems to get labeled as terrorism. Wars now seem to get it labeled too.

Don't see any of it changing in my lifetime but who knows for sure except that change is ever constant at some level.