Malwarebytes 4.3.0 with Windows 10 Defender

[Dave-H]

I was looking to see how Malwarebytes can work with the Windows Defender on Windows 10.

I realise that Malwarebytes replaces a lot of the Windows Defender functions of course, but there is a function you can enable on Windows Defender to do an occasional scan with it even though there's another AV program installed.

I tried enabling that and it seemed to work OK, but every time I reboot it's turned off again!

Has anyone any idea why that is and what I can do to keep it switched on?
As far as I can see from my searches it should be an option to use even if another AV program is installed.

Thanks, Dave.
😀

[Malwarebytes]

***This is an automated reply***

Hi,

Thanks for posting in the Malwarebytes for Windows Help forum.

If you are having technical issues with our Windows product, please do the following:

Malwarebytes Support Tool - Advanced Options

This feature is designed for the following reasons:

• For use when you are on the forums and need to provide logs for assistance
• For use when you don't need or want to create a ticket with Malwarebytes
• For use when you want to perform local troubleshooting on your own

How to use the Advanced Options:

Spoiler

1. Download Malwarebytes Support Tool
2. Double-click mb-support-X.X.X.XXXX.exe to run the program
   • You may be prompted by User Account Control (UAC) to allow changes to be made to your computer. Click Yes to consent.
3. Place a checkmark next to Accept License Agreement and click Next
4. Navigate to the Advanced tab
5. The Advanced menu page contains four categories:
   • Gather Logs: Collects troubleshooting information from the computer. As part of this process, Farbar Recovery Scan Tool (FRST) is run to perform a complete diagnosis. The information is saved to a file on the Desktop named mbst-grab-results.zip and can be added as an email attachment or uploaded to a forum post to assist with troubleshooting the issue at hand.
   • Clean: Performs an automated uninstallation of all Malwarebytes products installed to the computer and prompts to install the latest version of Malwarebytes for Windows afterwards. The Premium license key is backed up and reinstated. All user configurations and other data are removed. This process requires a reboot.
   •  Repair System: Includes various system-related repairs in case a Windows service is not functioning correctly that Malwarebytes for Windows is dependent on. It is not recommended to use any Repair System options unless instructed by a Malwarebytes Support agent.
   • Anonymously help the community by providing usage and threat statistics: Unchecking this option will prevent Malwarebytes Support Tool from sending anonymous telemetry data on usage of the program.
6. To provide logs for review click the Gather Logs button
7. Upon completion, click OK
8. A file named mbst-grab-results.zip will be saved to your Desktop
9. Please attach the file in your next reply.
10. To uninstall all Malwarebytes Products, click the Clean button.
11. Click the Yes button to proceed. 
12. Save all your work and click OK when you are ready to reboot.
13. After the reboot, you will have the option to re-install the latest version of Malwarebytes for Windows.
14. Select Yes to install Malwarebytes.
15. Malwarebytes for Windows will open once the installation completes successfully.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

If you are having licensing issues, please do the following: 

Spoiler

For any of these issues:

• Renewals
• Refunds (including double billing)
• Cancellations
• Update Billing Info
• Multiple Transactions
• Consumer Purchases
• Transaction Receipt

Please contact our support team at https://support.malwarebytes.com/hc/en-us/requests/new to get help

If you need help looking up your license details, please head here: Find my premium license key

 

 

Thanks in advance for your patience.

-The Malwarebytes Forum Team

[Porthos]

1 minute ago, Dave-H said:

I was looking to see how Malwarebytes can work with the Windows Defender on Windows 10.

I realise that Malwarebytes replaces a lot of the Windows Defender functions of course, but there is a function you can enable on Windows Defender to do an occasional scan with it even though there's another AV program installed.

I tried enabling that and it seemed to work OK, but every time I reboot it's turned off again!

Has anyone any idea why that is and what I can do to keep it switched on?
As far as I can see from my searches it should be an option to use even if another AV program is installed.

Thanks, Dave.
😀

I would turn off the following. It is off in my screenshot. It will give you maximum protection and works well.

 

[brad03]

Some use both...... Me personally I'm pretty good at what i do so i only use Malwarebytes. It will also depend on system resources. 

[Dave-H]

Thanks both, yes I have used Malwarebytes in the mode shown so Windows Defender is working as well, and that works fine, also just using Malwarebytes alone with the WD options disabled also works fine.
I was just puzzled as to why the intermediate mode offered, where Malwarebytes is registered in Windows Defender but you set WD just to do an occasional scan, doesn't work.

All my researches say that it should work fine in that configuration, but as I said earlier it only works for that session, when I reboot that "occasional scan" mode has switched itself off again, which surely it shouldn't do!

Is this a "feature" of Malwarebytes that this option does not work permanently, and if so, why?

Cheers, Dave.
🙂

[Porthos]

3 hours ago, Dave-H said:

Is this a "feature" of Malwarebytes that this option does not work permanently, and if so, why?

I think it does that no matter what AV is registered in the security center.  MS does not want to step on the 3rd party AV company's and cause conflicts.

[Dave-H]

Maybe, but everything I've read implies that it's a mode that you should be able to use indefinitely, not as a one-off just for a single session.
The fact that's it's a switch rather than a button seems to imply that too.
🤔

[lmacri]

On 3/26/2021 at 8:28 PM, Dave-H said:

...I realise that Malwarebytes replaces a lot of the Windows Defender functions of course, but there is a function you can enable on Windows Defender to do an occasional scan with it even though there's another AV program installed....

Hi Dave-H:

Are you thinking of Windows Defender's (also known as Microsoft Defender) Limited Periodic Scanning option described in the TenForums tutorial How to Turn On or Off Periodic Scanning with Microsoft Defender Antivirus in Windows 10  and the MS support article Use Limited Periodic Scanning in Microsoft Defender Antivirus?  According to that MS support article "Limited periodic scanning is a special type of threat detection and remediation that can be enabled when you have installed another antivirus product on a Windows 10 device" and as far as I know the option to enable Limited Periodic Scanning will appear at Settings | Update & Security | Windows Security | Virus & Threat Protection | Microsoft Defender Antivirus Options if your third-party antivirus program is configured to replace Windows Defender as your main real-time protection.

Limited Periodic Scanning currently isn't available on my system because I don't have other third-party security program launching at boot-up and running in real-time protection mode, but when I first purchased my Dell laptop it came with a trial version of McAfee LiveSafe (i.e., Windows Defender was not my main real-time protection) and I was able to turn on Limited Periodic Scanning so that Windows Defender could still run the occasional scan of my system.

I currently use Malwarebytes Free so someone with Malware Premium v4.x would have to tell you if Windows Defender's Limited Periodic Scanning can be enabled when Settings | Security | Windows Security Center | Always Register Malwarebytes in the Windows Security Center is turned ON in Malwarebytes Premium.
-------------
64-bit Win 10 Pro v2004 build 19041.867 * Firefox v87.0 * Windows Defender v4.18.2102.4 * Malwarebytes Free v4.3.0.98-1.0.1236
Dell Inspiron 15 5584, Intel i5-8265U CPU, 8 GB RAM, Toshiba KBG40ZNS256G 256 GB NVMe SSD, Intel UHD Graphics 620

[Dave-H]

Thanks yes, that's exactly the option I'm referring to.

I'm using MB 4.3.0, and as I said the periodic scanning option is there on my Windows Defender and can be enabled, but when I reboot it's switched off again!
I'm trying to find out why it won't stay enabled.

🤔

[AdvancedSetup]

Let use get the following logs please @Dave-H

Upload Malwarebytes Support Tool logs offline

 

If you're unable to get Windows Defender to run at the same time as Malwarebytes we may need to look a removal to check and fix Windows Defender and then reinstall but let's look at the logs first please.

 

 

[Dave-H]

OK, I've got the logs.
I took them with MB not being registered in WD, if that wasn't the right configuration to do it in, please let me know and I'll do it again!
How do I get the logs to you, the webpage says something about an e-mail?
I don't have an open support ticket about this unless one has been opened for me.
Thanks, Dave.
😀

[AdvancedSetup]

Please just attach the zip file here or you can send to me in a Private Message if you like.

 

[Dave-H]

OK, here they are!

Sorry, I had assumed that the file would be too big to attach here.

mbst-grab-results.zip

 

[AdvancedSetup]

Okay, the logs show that Malwarebytes should not be altering Windows Defender

Please use the MBST tool and go to Advanced and use the CLEAN option and have it remove Malwarebytes. It will ask to reinstall Malwarebytes but decline and please do not allow it to reinstall.

After the restart get me new logs please by running the FRST program from here:  C:\Users\Dave\Downloads\FRSTEnglish.exe

Click on SCAN and make sure there is a check mark in the Addition.txt check box and attach both new logs here.

Thank you @Dave-H

 

 

[Dave-H]

Thanks, I'll do the clean operation and report back.

I did say that I harvested the logs while MB was not registered in WD, that option was switched off.

Was that right?

🤔

[AdvancedSetup]

Yes, it shows as being off which means Defender should be enabled unless there is something already wrong with it which is what we'll look at.

 

[Dave-H]

Ah, that's not actually the problem!

When that setting is in on in MB, MB replaces WD for things like real-time scanning, exactly as it should do.

When that setting is off in MB, MB and WD are both enabled, which seems to work fine as well.

The problem is that when the setting is on, WD has a setting which allows WD to do a "periodic scan" even if another security program has taken over.
It's that which isn't working properly. I can enable it and it enables fine, but on a reboot it's switched off again, which it shouldn't do!
I'm assuming that MB is doing this, and it shouldn't.

This is the option I'm talking about -

😀

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Dave-H
Addition

[AdvancedSetup]

Ah.. yes I'm aware of the setting. However I'm not 100% certain how Microsoft handles that rule either as I've played with it before as well and even without reboot there seems to be conditions that disable it.

Personally I find it better to allow WD and MBAM both to run full time, but the choice is yours.

Anyways, please run the FRST program and get me new logs and I'll review and see if I see anything odd there or not.

 

[Porthos]

1 hour ago, Dave-H said:

It's that which isn't working properly. I can enable it and it enables fine, but on a reboot it's switched off again, which it shouldn't do!
I'm assuming that MB is doing this, and it shouldn't.

I have tested this on my computer and today had the opportunity to test it on a clients system. The results are the same as yours.

I believe I read somewhere that that feature does not work on consumer versions of Windows Home and Pro and is for the business editions.

[exile360]

Just FYI, the way that Defender gets disabled when Malwarebytes is configured to register with the Windows Security Center is accomplished by Defender/Windows itself.  Defender automatically disables itself whenever a third party security solution registers as the resident AV protection, so Malwarebytes doesn't actually make any changes to Windows Defender directly, even when configured to register with the Windows Security Center.

Edit: By the way, I also found multiple references to that setting not staying on for some users/installations of Windows 10.  Refer to the comments below this tutorial:

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/51514-turn-off-microsoft-defender-periodic-scanning-windows-10-a.html

as well as this thread on Microsoft's own support forums:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-security/windows-defender-virus-periodic-scanning-keeps/bb78f7cd-8526-4ffb-8a42-0fbaa0a9bbdd

The MS forum thread also includes instructions on repairing/reinstalling Defender which may help, but I'll leave that to you guys to determine.

Edited March 31, 2021 by exile360

[AdvancedSetup]

Unless Microsoft says or documents elsewhere, as I read it, it is not designed for use on the version that ships with Windows 10

The document does say otherwise sort of but then all other documentation says it's not so Microsoft is NOT very clear.

 

Applies to:

    Microsoft Defender for Endpoint

Limited periodic scanning is a special type of threat detection and remediation that can be enabled when you have installed another antivirus product on a Windows 10 device.

Use limited periodic scanning in Microsoft Defender Antivirus
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/microsoft-defender-antivirus/limited-periodic-scanning-microsoft-defender-antivirus

Microsoft Defender for Endpoint is an enterprise endpoint security platform designed to help enterprise networks prevent, detect, investigate, and respond to advanced threats.

Microsoft Defender for Endpoint
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/security/defender-endpoint/microsoft-defender-endpoint?view=o365-worldwide

 

They do say that it's pretty much useless as well. Which get back to my other point. I think it's better to just enable both Windows Defender and Malwarebytes to work together.

If you really want it to be there and it keeps going away, then setup a scheduled tasks that puts it back in place

 

[exile360]

You could also keep the setting in Malwarebytes disabled for registering with the Windows Security Center, then disable Defender's real-time protection (and dismiss the notification about it so that it doesn't constantly bug you about doing so), that way you can keep the periodic scans with Defender's protection disabled just as it would be if you kept periodic scanning active with Malwarebytes registered as the resident AV protection.

To do so, disable the 3 highlighted settings shown below:

Once that is done, if you receive notifications about Defender's settings being disabled, click the white shield icon in the tray to open Windows Security and click Dismiss for each of the items it prompts you to re-enable so that you will no longer be alerted about it (you may need to dismiss them again later on, particularly after installing certain Windows Updates and/or updates for Defender):

Edited March 31, 2021 by exile360

[AdvancedSetup]

Oh, it will always remind you. I have a couple features disabled and it reminds me quite often about it. 😃

[exile360]

Really?  I keep the two options disabled indicated in the image I posted and the only time it ever reminds me is when I've installed a new version of Defender through Windows Update, and occasionally after installing a major Windows 10 patch (like the yearly major point releases MS has been doing that make massive changes to 10 under the hood).

[Dave-H]

Thanks guys, sorry for the delay in responding, I was in bed here in England!

So I guess I'll carry on as before, with both MB and WD fully running, which always seemed to be OK.
I was just puzzled as to the behaviour of that setting in WD, and interesting that it may not actually be valid anyway with my version of Windows 10 (64 bit Pro) as if that was the case surely it shouldn't even be offered as an option!

Also good to know that it appearing to enable fine but not staying on over a reboot seems to be a fairly common problem, and it's not just me!
What made me ask was that I thought that possibly MB was disabling the option when it started up, which I assumed it shouldn't be doing.

I have read in many places that having more than one security program running is not advisable as they can clash with each other, but when I first got MB on Windows 10 I asked here about that and the consensus was that with MB it should be OK, as it's not the same as most other security/AV programs, and WD gives some protections with MB does not cover. I can't remember the details I'm afraid, but I'm sure I can look up  the thread!

🙂