Problems with Win7 Backup?

[daledoc1]

@ daledoc1

The external hard drive is connected using USB 2.0 that has transfer speed which is a lot slower than an internal hard disk connection's speed.

I gave up on using an external hard drive as it always seemed to fail on scheduled backups for some reason I could not figure out.

I have an extra internal hard drive in both of my systems that I use for backups and they have not failed on me yet.

Introductory video:

How to Install a Second Hard Drive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_vi9ECQdug

Hi, YoKenny1:

Nope, that's not the problem.

I've been using the same hardware (WD external HD, USB connection) on this system every week for > 1 year without a problem.

Incremental F/F backup would only take a few minutes, and even a complete PC backup would run to completion in a suitable time frame.

Alas, this system does not have an extra internal hard drive, so I have no choice.

Looking back on this problem, it DID start right after installing MBAM Pro ~1 month ago, but I did not make the connection.

Since I am caught in the circular firing squad between Dell (whose "premium" TS can't even perform a rudimentary google search on the problem, let alone help to resolve it) and MS (no direct TS b/c the OS is OEM, and no response whatsoever to multiple posts at their forums), I am kinda "up the creek" here.

To reiterate, I did a weekly F/F and PC backup without a problem until just these past few weeks.

I guess I try disabling the MBAM Pro active protection and see what happens.

It'll take ~2 hours of backing up before I know if it's working or not.

And if it hangs the OS (as everyone has reported, and as I have experienced), requiring a hard boot and a "Windows did not shut down properly" warning upon reboot, then I will have flailed yet again and who knows what problems all these improper shutdowns/reboots may cause.

Given that there are all sorts of threads about Windows Backup utility at the MS boards, and the fact that so many of us are having problems, I'm beginning to think that it *is* a problem with MBAM, especially given the time course in my case (no problems doing backup until after installing MBAM).

Sigh,

daledoc1

[exile360]

I'm running Vista x64 SP2 and to test, I just did a Complete PC Backup to one of my internal drives (I hadn't done one in a while anyway so it needed to be done), and aside from avp.exe (Kaspersky Anti-Virus) CPU usage climbing up and slowing things down at the beginning of the backup, it went just fine. I performed the backup with MBAM protection active throughout the entire process.

@daledoc1: For a full test, since it sounds like you're going to perform one, please uninstall Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware and reboot your PC but make no other system changes, then try the backup and let us know how it works out.

Thanks

[daledoc1]

You might check the USB Controllers/Root Hubs in your Device Manager and make sure they are not set to Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power. on the Power Management tab. It's possible, even likely, that if the computer had been in a sleep or hibernate state when the backup was scheduled that the backup could not be created because the hub was powered down.

Hi, Sam:

Yeah, all that's fine.

It's not a power setting thing (though that was a good thought, since Vista DOES shut down USB devices in sleep mode -- I learned that the hard way with my UPS as soon as I got the computer).

My UPS wouldn't be able to do a managed shutdown if the system were ever in sleep/hibernate mode when the power failed, b/c Vista cuts power to USB devices (stupid!).

So, I had to set up a custom power plan that does not EVER turn off the CPU.

Hence, I don't think this can be causing the problem.

Moreover, I actually usually monitor the backup process in real time -- F/F incremental backups should only take a few minutes, and even complete PC backups were pretty speedy. It's like watching paint dry, but I obsess a bit over critical functions, like backups.

All of the hardware (the external HD, the USB cable, the "box") is the same as it has been.

And I routinely did ~weekly F/F and PC image backups without a hitch until ~1 month ago, which is exactly when I installed MBAM Pro.

IOW, all my regular backups BEFORE MBAM went fine.

Since then, either they are SLOWER than molasses (F/F) or don't complete at all & hang the OS (Complete PC).

I'm not trying to point fingers, I'm just describing my observations, based on my limited knowledge and expertise, but based on my experiences.

I might not have even *thought* it was MBAM causing the problem, if I hadn't seen this thread.

It certainly stands to reason that it could be a "Vista thing".

Thanks for your assistance -- hope we can work this out,

daledoc

PS Files/folders backup went fine on my Win 7 32 laptop with MBAM Pro last week. It's a new machine and it was the *first* F/F backup, so it did take a while, but I will try an incremental backup today and see how it goes. I have not yet tried a System Repair CD backup on that machine, yet.

[Sartori]

One other thing, are you guys doing the system image backup along with incremental? This is an option in Windows 7...

[EliteKiller]

One other thing, are you guys doing the system image backup along with incremental? This is an option in Windows 7...

Good observation. I was fixing to ask MBAM staff the same thing.

[Roadkil]

Good observation. I was fixing to ask MBAM staff the same thing.

It only does it when the mbam protection module is ENABLED and running. As long as I untick the start with windows box and have protection disabled all is well and the backups occur with no problems. But as soon as I tick the start with windows and enable protection, the system locks up at 3 am which is my scheduled backup time and I have to hit the reset button to fix it.

[exile360]

One other thing, are you guys doing the system image backup along with incremental? This is an option in Windows 7...

In Vista, if you've already done a full system image then all later images are incremental, it only backs up what has changed otherwise I would have run out of space on my secondary drive a long time ago .

@daledoc1: What I said with regards to USB was specifically for YoKenny1 since he mentioned he always had trouble backing up to external drives, that's why I quoted him in my reply. I asked you to do a test if you're willing.

@Everyone experiencing this: Would you mind testing with IP Protection disabled to see if that makes a difference or not?

Thanks

[YoKenny1]

@ exile360

In Post #24 you asked me to check Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power on the Power Management tab and I have always made sure that it was not selected because I was shown ages ago when I first started using XP that this causes problems with some USB devices.

The problem I had was even before IP Protection feature became available and I can't test it now as I don't have a USB hard drive any more.

I have an APC UPS but I never use sleep mode on my systems so I would not have found out about this situation without daledoc1 mentioning it.

[exile360]

Thanks YoKenny1 for the additional info. I'm just trying to narrow this down as much as I can. So far it appears that it's the file execution protection component causing this, not the IP blocker. That gives us a start as to where to look.

I also saw mention of certain services being unable to start in a timely manner from Event Viewer logs.

I'll get the developers to look at this thread and see what they come up with. Hopefully this will get solved in the next release if the root of it can be determined.

[exile360]

An additional question: I saw several users mention this was happening with external USB hard drives. Is anyone experiencing this when doing backups to internal drives? That may be another clue as to the cause.

Thanks

[Sartori]

An additional question: I saw several users mention this was happening with external USB hard drives. Is anyone experiencing this when doing backups to internal drives? That may be another clue as to the cause.

Thanks

YoKenny1 and myself haven't had an issue with Internal Drives, post #23 and #25. I've had issues with both USB external and NAS box backups....

[EliteKiller]

An additional question: I saw several users mention this was happening with external USB hard drives. Is anyone experiencing this when doing backups to internal drives? That may be another clue as to the cause.

Thanks

I doing the backup/image creation to an internal WD Black 1TB. Since MBAM has been uninstalled for a few days I have experienced zero issues. I will reinstall MBAM and disable the real-time protection once I return to that computer on Wed. to see what happens.

[daledoc1]

Hi, all:

Sorry for not getting back to you on this.

Power was out nearly consecutively for more than 100 hours here in TX.

It was warmer in my fridge than in my bedroom when the lights came back on yesterday.

Just got back on the grid yesterday PM and still playing catch-up.

Will read your posts and post back with any updated info from here as soon as I can.

One thing, though: my problems seem to be on my VISTA box, not on my W7 laptop.

My first files/folders backup on the W7 laptop seemed to go OK.

That said, I haven't yet tried a PC image or to create a repair disc on the W7 system.

And I haven't tried an incremental files/folders backup on that system yet, either.

(I've had no power, so there's nothing "new" to back up!)

Yes, it is a USB ext hard drive (which worked just fine on the Vista desktop for > 1 year and the ext HD itself seems to be working fine still and it has plenty of room, and all the necessary "services" are turned on in Windows).

I was led to believe by Dell TS that the problem was with my OS and it required either a deep repair or an OSRI.

Not sure either will be needed, since I have yet to try the backups (files/folders or PC image) with MBAM active protection disabled, to see if that solves the problem.

I'll be even more curious to see what happens when I try this with the brand new USB ext HD I bought last week & MBAM active pro disabled.

With the "old" one, backup starts, but eventually hangs (and hangs the OS, requiring a hard boot; but no error message).

When I tried backup w/the new one (with MBAM active pro enabled), even though Vista immediately recognized the device, and it was "there" in "my computer", I got an error (0x81000006) and wouldn't even START the backup. (When I Googled this error message, I turned up several threads at MS Technet and public forums, but I got ZERO replies to my posts about it.)

All of this was before learning of this possible issue with MBAM.

SOOOOOOOOOOO, anyway, I have yet to try backup on the Vista box with MBAM active pro disabled, and I have yet to try a complete PC image or incremental files backup on the W7 laptop with either the "old" or the "new" ext HD.

I will try to get back to you ASAP when I have results of these attempts.

Thanks!

daledoc1

[exile360]

Hello again everyone

I just wanted to let everybody know that I was finally able to replicate this issue with version 1.44 and I did some testing with an early build of 1.45 and it appears that this issue has been resolved thanks to the developer of the Protection Module, Swandog46 so if all goes well you won't have to worry about this any more once version 1.45 is released .

Thank you to everyone who brought this to our attention and assisted us in figuring out the problem.

[EliteKiller]

Many thanks to MBAM Staff for all of their efforts. This is one of the many reasons that MBAM continues to flourish.

[Sartori]

Yes, thanks alot for all your hard work!!

Any word on when 1.45 might be ready?

[daledoc1]

Hello, all:

@Sam: Sorry, in my overwhelmed state playing catch-up after the 4-day power outage, I missed your request about the "full test" to try to perform a backup after a complete MBAM uninstall. Sorry about that.

I was planning to just try to backup with active protection disabled, but you would prefer <gulp> that I uninstall MBAM instead?

Is this still necessary, based on the new information?

(I assume this will apply to VISTA, too, since I'm having the issue on my Vista system; not sure about my W7 system?)

Reason for asking is that I hate to uninstall MBAM b/c I always hate to "rock the boat". MBAM Pro is working fine and it always makes me nervous to uninstall/clean/reinstall working programs.

I've been so swamped, I haven't even had a chance to try any backups to my external HD yet, though I hope to get to it tonight, at least for files/folders and my "separate" backups of my FF and TB profiles that are my "backup backups".

I will have to wait to try a full PC image backup (with MBAM either disabled or uninstalled), since that is a lengthy process and I will want to monitor the system during the procedure. I've been procrastinating with trying it b/c it was such a disaster the last few times.

In fact, I'm thinking about waiting for version 1.45 before trying a PC image backup again...

Well, I'm off to find and download the MBAM cleaner, just in case.

Thanks to everyone at MBAM and the forum posters for their excellent support, advice and responsiveness.

daledoc1

[Firefox]

Hello again everyone

I just wanted to let everybody know that I was finally able to replicate this issue with version 1.44 and I did some testing with an early build of 1.45 and it appears that this issue has been resolved thanks to the developer of the Protection Module, Swandog46 so if all goes well you won't have to worry about this any more once version 1.45 is released .

Thank you to everyone who brought this to our attention and assisted us in figuring out the problem.

Great news, there are not too many software developers out there that work hard like the MBAB folks. Most blame the problem on other software and we have to tuff it out. But here with the MBAM folks they try thier hardest to help replicate the problem and fix it.....

A big Cuddos to the folks here!

[daledoc1]

Absolutely!

And, I have a modicum of good news to report.

I just disabled MBAM Active Pro (but did not uninstall), and tried a files/folders backup on the Vista box.

It ran just fine, taking only 7 minutes for the incremental backup, as I expected (based on how it "used" to run).

I will try a PC image backup later to see if disabling MBAM active pro resolves that more serious problem (hanging the OS, requiring a hard boot from the CPU power switch).

I am greatly encouraged that the files/folders incremental backup is "back to normal", and I hope that the PC image will likewise proceed normally.

So, it does seem it *was* something with the file protection module in MBAM that was slowing down the file backup (and presumably crashing the PC image backup).

I REALLY, REALLY am hugely impressed by the support of the MBAM folks.

With many years of experience with circular firing squads when it comes to computer issues, I am so amazed that MBAM took this on, worked hard with the posters to identify the issue, and appear to have developed a solution.

How refreshing!

<APPLAUSE>

More later, after I try a PC backup on the Vista box, and files and PC backups on the W7 laptop.

THANKS TO ALL,,

daledoc1

[daledoc1]

Well, here's a new wrinkle in the backup matter.

Ran into a new snag that seems to relate to the Win7-MBAM backup problem, wherein MBAM crashed and wouldn't update.

1) Connected brand new, empty 1 TB Iomega USB EHD to Win7 Pro 32 laptop.

2) Opened the backup/restore panel, but hadn't yet clicked to start backup, since I had to change the backup drive from the other EHD I had used the previous time.

3) Before I could do so and before I could close out MBAM Active Pro, I got an error message (didn't see the dialog box before it disappeared, but assume it must have been "MBAM has encountered a problem and has to close"). MBAM then appeared to close on its own, and the system tray icon disappeared. WEIRD, as I had not even started the backup.

4) Anyway, I disconnected the EHD (safe removal), rebooted and then performed a complete backup (files/folders/image) to the EHD without a problem & also created a repair disc uneventfully. MBAM was not running for either task, b/c I don't have it set to start at Windows startup.

5) When backup finished, I did a safe remove on the EHD and opened MBAM. The GUI opened fine, and I was able to start the protection module, but when I tried to update, nothing happened. Repeated this twice, to no avail. No 732 error code, it just hung.

6) I looked over the FAQ item about that, but my FW settings are fine, as is IE. I was just about to do an uninstall/clean/reinstall of MBAM when I rebooted one more time. This time, I was able to open MBAM and check for updates (tells me I'm current with version 3759, 2/18/2010 - same as on my Vista system).

Note: this is on the Win7 32 system (as opposed to the Vista 32 system) and was the first time I've directly experienced any problems with Win7 backup to a USB EHD and MBAM. (I must confess that Win7 backup is not very much fun. Although it's better than the "all or none" options in Vista, I still miss XP backup and am not comfortable with the way this works yet. I think there are some oddities with it.)

It seems that something glitchy occurred as soon as I opened the backup/restore panel in Windows with MBAM Pro running, even though I hadn't even started the backup process.

Whatever it is seems to be resolved for now.

Needless to say, should it happen again, I will probably complete an uninstall/clean/reinstall.

Please let me know if there is any other information I can provide to help explain this odd behavior, or whether this is part of the same issue we have been dealing with in this thread.

Off to bed for now -- enough computer hygiene for tonight!

Thanks again!

daledoc1

[exile360]

Hello again daledoc1

As I was able to replicate the problem, the only 100% way to prevent the freezes was to exit MBAM's protection before even opening the Backup and Restore interface, otherwise it could freeze at any time. Once I even did a successful backup and it only froze later on while performing other tasks (basically just web browsing). Also, I got the freeze to happen with both types of backups (image, file and incremental for both).

The good news in all of this is that with the new version I couldn't get a freeze no matter how I did the backups and I tried many times to get it to do so just to make sure .

[daledoc1]

Hi, Sam:

Well, I guess that it *is* a symptom of the same problem then.

Weird, b/c I did a Windows backup last week on the W7 machine without a problem.

I'm 99% sure MBAM Pro *was* running at the time, since it was before this conflict had surfaced here at the forum.

So, I didn't even know what I didn't know.

Perhaps it's inconsistent.

I took extra precautions on the Vista files backup tonight by disabling Carbonite AND exiting MBAM before I even connected the EHD, and the file backup proceeded normally and I had no problems restarting MBAM afterwards.

I guess I was too complacent and should have done the same thing on the Win7 machine, as well, before I connected the EHD.

Live and learn.

MBAM conflicts aside, I do still think there's something peculiar about the Win7 backup utility, compared to both XP and even Vista.

Well, tomorrow I will try a PC backup on the Vista machine "just for fun".

I've been dragging my feet b/c I really hate OS crashes and seeing those "Windows didn't shut down normally" messages.

Maybe it will work normally, so long as MBAM and Carbonite are *off* before I start... <crosses fingers and toes>

I just updated to 3760 on both systems, so everything seems to be working OK for now.

Glad to hear that a fix will be coming in the next version.

Thanks again for your assistance.

I don't know HOW you experts have the patience to put up with us computer illiterates all day, every day!

daledoc1

[exile360]

Yes, this issue was inconsistent for me as well. As I'd explained previously in this thread, originally I couldn't replicate it at all. I believe one of the users here described the issue as "hit or miss" which I believe is a very accurate assessment. It doesn't always freeze and sometimes it works just fine but other times it just locks up performing the same task.

I'm just glad it seems sorted now in the upcoming version. Thanks again for helping us figure this one out .

[daledoc1]

Yikes!

This is still a real problem with MBAM 1.44 and Win 7.

This morning I attempted to start a routine Windows backup of files and PC Image from my new Win 7 (64) desktop to my new Iomega USB EHD.

I remembered to disable Carbonite before connecting the EHD (to avoid any *theoretical* conflict between Windows backup and Carbonite backup), but I forgot to disable MBAM active protection.

I connected the EHD just fine. But, although I was able to open the backup/restore interface, and Windows recognized the EHD, as soon as I clicked the button to start the backup, Windows froze. Mouse moved, but was not functional. No task manager, no device shut down from system tray, no system shutdown from start menu. Had to hard boot from power switch on tower.

When I rebooted, I did not enable MBAM active pro (it is not configured to load at Windows start up; I do it manually).

Retried Windows backup and it ran just fine, first for files/folders and then for a separate PC image.

So, this confirms my experiences on my Win 7 (32) laptop and my Vista (32) desktop -- something about MBAM's file protection?

Looking forward to v. 1.45, with the hopes that it will resolve this problem.

Thanks,

daledoc1