Jump to content

Windows 8, and Linux dual boot


noknojon

Recommended Posts

pcTech authority Newsletter - This week -

One of the big concerns is that Windows 8 and UEFI will impact users wanting to dual boot with Linux.

Nathan Taylor looks at the issue.

We’ve seen a lot of hysterical comments in the past week or so about how Windows 8 is going to screw Linux by preventing Linux dual boots and installs.

To be honest, it has been rather astounding the amount of misinformation that has been peddled.

The core of the issue actually has very little to do with Windows 8.

The uproar is over secure boot. Secure boot is a feature of UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface), and UEFI is the PC firmware that is gradually replacing the antiquated BIOS system in newer PCs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How much do you want to bet that someone in the Linux community will find a way around "Secure Boot"? How much do you want to bet that some malware creators will find it just as fast?

Score

Mircosoft | 0

Malware Creators | 1

Linux | -23

Link to post
Share on other sites

pcTech authority Newsletter - This week -

One of the big concerns is that Windows 8 and UEFI will impact users wanting to dual boot with Linux.

[...]

The core of the issue actually has very little to do with Windows 8.

The uproar is over secure boot. Secure boot is a feature of UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface), and UEFI is the PC firmware that is gradually replacing the antiquated BIOS system in newer PCs.

John..

You're about 17 days late - See Topic http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=95872

:P

You gots to hang around more, my friend.. You miss some of the good (and bad) stuff. :)

Steve

PS: Vegemite hangovers are no excuse.. (Ducking, running and laughing..)

Link to post
Share on other sites

How much do you want to bet that someone in the Linux community will find a way around "Secure Boot"? How much do you want to bet that some malware creators will find it just as fast?

Arthur..

What's to keep a person running Linux as his (her?) prime system boot and adding Win8 as a 2nd boot? :huh:

Technically speaking, as I don't know much about dual booting, period. :unsure:

Steve..

I know nothing..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Arthur..

What's to keep a person running Linux as his (her?) prime system boot and adding Win8 as a 2nd boot? :huh:

Technically speaking, as I don't know much about dual booting, period. :unsure:

Steve..

I know nothing..

That won't work because of the way that Windows 8 boots. It loads a bunch of stuff from the boot manager itself (files etc. for loading up the OS) way early in the boot phase as the boot manager loads instead of after the boot manager like other Windows operating systems do so if you try to boot from a different boot manager (such as Linux), I don't think 8 will boot at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That won't work because of the way that Windows 8 boots. It loads a bunch of stuff from the boot manager itself (files etc. for loading up the OS) way early in the boot phase as the boot manager loads instead of after the boot manager like other Windows operating systems do so if you try to boot from a different boot manager (such as Linux), I don't think 8 will boot at all.

Windows Boot Manager should still load even if you are using GRUB. Windows Vista and Windows 7 wouldn't boot without it either, and you can dual boot with them and Linux.

My understanding is that, when a Linux distribution installs GRUB, it moves the Windows boot sector information back a little bit to make room, and then it will initialize the Windows boot loader/boot manager when you select the Windows option from GRUB's menu. I can't explain specifics, because I never really studied how it works.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shouldn't that be more like this?

Mircosoft | 0

Malware Creators | 1,000,000,000

Linux | 23,000

or

Mircosoft | -7820

Malware Creators | 1,000,000,000,239,323,210,211,344,299,999,999,000

Linux | 23,000,232

Link to post
Share on other sites

Windows Boot Manager should still load even if you are using GRUB. Windows Vista and Windows 7 wouldn't boot without it either, and you can dual boot with them and Linux.

My understanding is that, when a Linux distribution installs GRUB, it moves the Windows boot sector information back a little bit to make room, and then it will initialize the Windows boot loader/boot manager when you select the Windows option from GRUB's menu. I can't explain specifics, because I never really studied how it works.

Give it a try, I'm telling you, I'm running the dev preview of 8 on my multiboot rig right now, and every boot, while the boot manager loads, it takes a long time, loading a bunch of stuff before even showing the OS selection menu (which no longer shows my XP unfortunately :() and if I choose Windows 8 from the OS selection menu once the boot menu shows up, the system gets to the desktop very quickly. They changed the boot process so that stuff for the OS is loading with the boot manager, if you cut out that step and use a different one (like GRUB), I don't think 8 will boot but I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Give it a try, I'm telling you, I'm running the dev preview of 8 on my multiboot rig right now, and every boot, while the boot manager loads, it takes a long time, loading a bunch of stuff before even showing the OS selection menu (which no longer shows my XP unfortunately :() and if I choose Windows 8 from the OS selection menu once the boot menu shows up, the system gets to the desktop very quickly. They changed the boot process so that stuff for the OS is loading with the boot manager, if you cut out that step and use a different one (like GRUB), I don't think 8 will boot but I'd love to hear from anyone who has tried.

Probably just a GRUB misconfiguration, since Windows 8 is new, and it probably doesn't know what it is. See this link for information posted by someone who managed to do a triple-boot with Windows 7, Windows 8, and OpenSUSE 11.4.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably just a GRUB misconfiguration, since Windows 8 is new, and it probably doesn't know what it is. See this link for information posted by someone who managed to do a triple-boot with Windows 7, Windows 8, and OpenSUSE 11.4.

Sweet, I'll have to look into using GRUB (without installing Linux) so I can boot XP again (guess I'll have to shrink one of my partitions or something to get GRUB installed) :P.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sweet, I'll have to look into using GRUB (without installing Linux) so I can boot XP again (guess I'll have to shrink one of my partitions or something to get GRUB installed) :P.

You should be able to fit GRUB in the boot sector (depending on how much space is available), but I have never tried manually installing GRUB, so I can't tell you what to expect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about Linux, but I figured out a simple solution to the XP problem (thanks to some googling). I just set the default operating system under system startup to "Earlier Version of Windows" which gives me the old boot manager screen and lets me choose for all of my operating systems, including XP, 8, Vista and 7 :D.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about Linux, but I figured out a simple solution to the XP problem (thanks to some googling). I just set the default operating system under system startup to "Earlier Version of Windows" which gives me the old boot manager screen and lets me choose for all of my operating systems, including XP, 8, Vista and 7 :D.

Well, that works. You can always run Linux in a VM if you have to.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Samuel and Arthur;

Thank you for the information. I still enjoy learning even at my age. :)

Maybe when the time comes Buttons will give it a whack-a-do try with his Linux system.

Steve..

Did I hear someone mention me? :P I haven't tried this yet, but I am curious to how it works. I'll check this out in a bit and let you guys know how it goes. :) FSF is having a fit over this and trying to get people to sign a petition forcing OEMS to create a way to allow dual booting or replacing Windows with Linux etc. I happen to be on the petition. ;)

http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/statement

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I just got around to trying this and so far no feature exists yet. Dual booting works just fine. The feature probably won't make it until at least beta, but have to wonder if it won't be until the RTM so people won't find ways ahead of release to bypass this. :unsure:

It will get leaked. Just ask ThePirateBay about that. :lol:

The feature is also hardware-dependant. If the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface is not present on the hardware (I assume the motherboard will run it in place of a BIOS) then there is no Secure Boot, and you won't see the feature used at all in Windows 8.

Also, here's an article on Secure Boot that makes it sound a little less bad (so long as the hardware vendors refuse to allow Microsoft to exclusively control the platform keys).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
Back to top
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

This site uses cookies - We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.