In lust of soon-to-be released Hardware by HP

[ShyWriter]

I found my dream machine to customize as soon as the standard "buy Win7 now and get a FREE Win8 upgrade" takes place near the end of the year. Win8000 has already been recompiled into Win8005 so General Public RC1 of Win8 is not that close yet.

I'm not posting the whole series or complete article so as to not be accused of SPAM. *wry smile*

Wait for it... Here it comes.. Note 600 watt PS with ability to run i-7 Extreme's 130W and a 250W graphics card and a max of 48G RAM in 6 slots. This particular model allows the user to configure the 3 HD slots any way they wish including Raid 0 and Raid 1 *and* a SSD.. Take a read..

HP unveils stylin' new desktop line

WebOS? 'Not yet'

By Rik Myslewski in San Francisco

[DarkSnakeKobra]

I really like the style.

[ShyWriter]

I love everything about it. Unfortunately Win8 isn't due out until September 2012 so I guess I'll have to get it without the free upgrade. I'm going to their page today to do a sample configuration and see what the cost will be. Couldn't do it before as it wasn't released for sale until today.

EDIT: Geeze.. The machine, preconfigured in several ways, are the last 4 items on this page: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/series_can.do;HHOJSID=RKcnNT8P6CJdkpdSLSj1GW5LRwGWHbhmGMXnJLD21zM4Jv6XgshX!-498711839?storeName=computer_store&landing=desktops&a1=Category&v1=High+performance&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/desktops/High_performance

Check out the prices.. ughhhhh.. I think I'll wait for Black Friday and see if the prices drop in a few months.. I love the machine but thought there'd be better deals

Steve

Edited May 18, 2011 by ShyWriter

[AdvancedSetup]

Well you may want to wait anyways as there are some new hardware components that will improve speed quite a bit that will become a bit of a standard probably by end of year. That will also help reduce the price on some hardware that is not quite state of the art but still quite good.

[AdvancedSetup]

Well I don't see any with a 600W power supply offered yet on the site.

The best one I can find is the HP Pavilion HPE h8se series that has a 460W Power supply and starts at $1,679.99*

System price as configured - Total: $3,713.98

1. Operating system SAVE $21! Genuine Windows 7 Professional [64-bit with Service Pack 1]
   
2. Processor Intel® Core™ i7-990X six-core Extreme ion [3.46GHz, 1.5MB L2 + 12MB shared L3 cache]
   
3. Memory 24GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [6 DIMMs]
   
4. Hard drive 160GB solid state drive
   
5. Secondary Hard Drive 2TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
   
6. Third hard drive 2TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
   
7. Office software No additional office software
   
8. Security software Norton Internet Security™ 2011 - 15 month
   
9. Graphics card 1GB DDR3 Radeon HD 6570 [DVI, HDMI. VGA adapter]
   
10. Power Supply 460W Power supply
    
11. Primary optical drive Blu-ray writer & SuperMulti DVD burner
    
12. Networking Premium Wireless-N LAN card and Bluetooth(R )
    
13. Productivity ports 15-in-1 memory card reader, 4 USB 2.0 (front) w/USB 3.0 card (rear), audio, 2 USB (top rear-facing)
    
14. TV & entertainment experience TV tuner, ATSC-NTSC with PVR, remote
    
15. Sound Card Integrated sound
    
16. Keyboard and Mouse Premium HP keyboard and optical mouse

Check with Bruce - he's recently built a MUCH faster system and possibly even at less cost.

[sho-dan]

This big-boy

[ThexDarksider]

Here, I'll post my specs and the approximate prices if it's of any help.

PSU - 420 W - $60

MBO - ASUS M4A78T-E - $170

CPU - AMD II X3 440 @ 3.0 GHz - $100-150, it's nearer to $100 at the moment but it was higher back in 2010

RAM - 2 GB DDR3 @ 1333 MHz (don't really remember the manufacturer but I think it's Kingmax or Corsair) - $35

HDD - ST3500418AS 465 GB (500 GB) - $65

Graphics - Radeon HD 3300 - onboard

Everything else is onboard as well.

Total (with these prices): $430-480. Prices are approximately converted to USD. These are current prices of the listed hardware. I'm pretty sure I paid more than that when I bought everything (June 2010).

I can confidentially say, though, buying done computers is only 10 kinds of people: really busy people, and people with low self-esteem regarding technology. Build your own system if you have the guts. (or the time for it)

[nosirrah]

Check with Bruce - he's recently built a MUCH faster system and possibly even at less cost.

Unless HP has changed their policies I would stay away. They do (at least the last time I checked) 2 things that are very anti DIY when it comes to fixing your own PC. They give you a recovery partition with no actual real install disk. This is a HUGE problem if you ever have a drive failure as there is no way to fix it yourself. The second problem I have always had with them is their online driver system and model number system. The last HP laptop I fixed had 3 model numbers on it and online there was a huge list of potential sub-models to choose from. There is no way any novice user would be able to navigate to the correct destination and get their correct drivers. By contrast Dell give you not only an OS install disk but it is not loaded with all the pre-installed software so you can chose to install that stuff again if you want. Dell's website and service tag system makes getting your drivers very easy.

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c00810334

Best I can tell you still need to order them and on top of that they seem to be image reinstall disks meaning that 100% of their additional software will be forced on you.

On the topic of building your own PC you can play the sale + rebate game on newegg.com and build a PC that $:performance is untouchable by any OEM vendor. You can also build exactly what you want and pre-plan exactly how much upgradability you have looking forward. You also need to match components to need so that you can maximize your $ spent. Here are some basic questions that will affect greatly what components to buy:

How much GFX power do you need? (does not matter, mid range addin card, top of the line)

How much threading sensitive computing will you be doing? (working with video, and running multiple applications at once loves cores while surfing and word processing wont even notice them)

What is the total number of gigs you have ever used on a hard drive? (You should plan on 2 - 8 times more space)

Do you care about blazing boot speeds and instant application launches? (SSD will give you what you need here)

For the vast majority of people a fast dual core CPU (high end i5) will feel faster than a 6 or 8 core monster. For the vast majority of people 4 gig is plenty of ram. For the vast majority of people a faster hard drive will have more direct impact on 'feel' than a blazing CPU will.

You also need to know what components fail and which ones don't. I cant even begin to estimate how many PSUs and MOBOs I have replaced over the years but for RAM, gfx cards and CPUs the number is actually very small. This is why I recommend going for MOBOs and PSUs that have a verifiable reputation for reliability and spend a little more than the lowest you can find.

[1PW]

@Bruce/nossirah

Super thanks for your latest build experience.

In early April, which make/model case did you install all the stuff in?

What make/model PSU seems to give you the best longevity these days?

I remember you reporting that you were overclocking a bit. What CPU cooling arrangement did you finalize with?

I do all RAM upgrades with Crucial. Are you using another make you might have found better?

I guess we're giving our friends at Newegg a fairly good plug. Is that who you use much of the time?

Please answer at your leisure if it's a busy time for you sir.

TIA

[nosirrah]

I guess we're giving our friends at Newegg a fairly good plug. Is that who you use much of the time?

Between personal and professional purchases over the last 10 years I have dropped $50,000 on newegg easily and they have yet to do anything that ticked me off, totally happy with ordering from them.

I remember you reporting that you were overclocking a bit. What CPU cooling arrangement did you finalize with?

Both the core and sandy bridge i5 from Intel are amazing chips for OCing and there is no reason to run under 3.8 ghz even on stock cooling.

I do all RAM upgrades with Crucial. Are you using another make you might have found better?

For the most part once you get to DDR3 compatibility issues no longer exist so I just get the best deal on a solid brand from newegg, the prices change so often that I don't pin myself down to any one particular brand.

In early April, which make/model case did you install all the stuff in?

I have built 4 PCs now using this case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

What make/model PSU seems to give you the best longevity these days?

I use Thermaltake and Corsair PSUs and always go 200 watts over what I need at max. I have never needed to replace a PSU on a system that I built.

What do you need a potential new computer to do and in 18 months would you rather upgrade or replace? The second part is very critical as if you want to replace in 18 months you should go with the core i# series components and save some $ now while if you want to upgrade in 18 months go with a sandy bridge mobo and pop in a 22nm ivy bridge CPU in 18 months for a huge gain in performance. BTW it is unlikely that prebuilt OEM systems will be able to upgrade from sandy bridge CPUs to ivy bridge CPUs as they lock down the BIOS to force more frequent system replacements.

[1PW]

It's always a treat to get information like this from a trustworthy source.

Thanks tons Bruce

[1PW]

@ShyWriter/Steve:

Have you considered building your own system this time around?

[ShyWriter]

Hello Shy

Nice box, but I rather build me own, have control over top shelf hardware and prices .

I know T.. Unfortunately, 40 years of electro-mechanical/computer-keyboard/mouse work has left me with extremely poor eyesite (to the extent of needing a magnifying glass to read R_x. instructions and ingredients in R_x or in/on objects.) even with corrective lenses, I have the beginning of cataracts not bad enough to qualify for an operation (more dim than distorted) and my fingers now have skin extremly smooth with minimum touch control (no "grip") as well as the mid-beginnings of arthritis.

I'd love to build my own machine with CPU water cooling and a bunch of nice, cosmetic effects as well as extreme performance. I have the talent; I have the skill; I have the experience; I have the imagination; I *don't* have the dexterity or full operation of my physical facilities. I'm not looking for sympathy; Just explaining why I can't "build my own."

@AdvancedSteup - I got the 600W PS info from the pre-release advertisement sent in my HP customer mailing.

"Due to the fact that the

HPE h8 has a 600W power supply

,

the rep said

, it can house a graphics card that sucks as much as 250W. "Imagine a

GTX 580 card

from Nvidia," he said. The beefed-up power supply also has enough oomph to simultaneously support a

130W Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition

processor." (

editor's note: we all know salesmen lie out the ***!

)

I know nothing about it beyond that...

Shy

[nosirrah]

Anyone looking to build a very good sandy bridge system on a budget may want to keep an eye out for this:

http://guru3d.com/news/intel-might-launch-unlocked-dualcore-sandy-bridge-chip/

If this comes to pass this should be an overclocking monster for very little $. The sandy bridge chipsets also allow for a new raid mode where a SSD and HDD can be combined in a way that the SSD acts as cache for the HDD allowing for both huge drive capacity and fast SSD performance without the huge price tag of a large SSD. Combining an OCed dual core sandy bridge chip and a small SSD + HDD in hybrid raid mode should allow for super performance without breaking the bank.

This is one heck of a SSD for the price ($160 SSD on sale for $110):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227550

Combine that with this HDD (fast 1TB HDD on sale for $60):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136534

What you then have is a $220 1TB drive where the most commonly used 60 gigs loads at SSD speed (that would be your OS and frequently used apps so booting and app launch would be super fast). Compare that to a 1 TB SSD and you can see just how cheap this actually is for the performance and capacity you get. Add this to an OCed dual core sandy bridge CPU (I bet 4.2 GHZ on these will be easy) and for less than $400 you have the majority of your performance needs well in hand. With this starting point it should be easy to stay under $1000 and still blow away $2000 OEM machines when it comes to performance. On top of that you have a solid upgrade foundation for when SAT600 SSDs get cheaper and 22nm ivy bridge CPUs are released.

I took a few minutes and put the rest of the system together on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161379

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153114

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220537

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131713

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992

This brings you up to about $900 (when including the CPU, SSD and HDD I mentioned above) and even includes a solid gfx card and 7 64 pro. If you dropped down to home premium and a low end gfx card you could get this down to $800. In 18-24 months you could invest $500 for windows 8 upgrade, double ram, new ivy bridge CPU and new mid range gfx card to keep this system very powerful relative to the average system.

[eldergeek]

X2 nosirrah

you and I think alike. Nothing more to add.

That said, I completely understand you situation ShyWriter.

[ShyWriter]

Unless HP has changed their policies I would stay away. They do (at least the last time I checked) 2 things that are very anti DIY when it comes to fixing your own PC. They give you a recovery partition with no actual real install disk. This is a HUGE problem if you ever have a drive failure as there is no way to fix it yourself.

[...]

I meant to get back to you when I read this Bruce but it was late and I was logging off.. And then, I forgot..

Over the past 30 years I've owned (or customer installed) a variety of computers from different manufacturers from Apple through AT&T, Gateway, Compaq, SGI, Sun, IBM, Dell and HP. I usually buy Dell or HP through SAMS now as their extended warranties are dirt cheap and it doesn't take an act of God to get an actual technician on-site through their 3rd party warranty service.

To get back on subject, one of the first things an HP (my current machine) installation asks/tells you is to make recovery discs which I take to mean is a copy of that D:\ drive recovery partition. When I bought my wife her Dell, I did the same but as it was during the buy Vista64 now, get Win7 when released, I have actual Win7 DVDs for her machine.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you said but, IMHO, all these computer companies started going down the tubes when they put the documentation on discs instead of hard-copy. My son builds his own computers (he's a Senior Software Engineer with IBM at Triangle Park in NC) but he's still young enough that everything still works on his body.

Build-it-yourself is definitely the way to go for people that have the skills/physical abilities to do so. I kept hoping he'd visit this year and build one with me but his wife and mine don't get along so unless his visit is a Christmas gift to an old man, I won't see him before I'm ready to replace my current equipment.

Steve

[ShyWriter]

[...]

That said, I completely understand your situation ShyWriter.

Thanks for that EG.. BTW, you and my best friend at Xerox when I was working could be twin brothers. I got the tall and awkward lift up and over stuff during equipment repair and he got into those smaller spaces so I didn't have to crawl on the floor. *grin* Man could he scamper..

*tease*

Steve

[sho-dan]

Hello Steve

If there's a Microcenter in your area, check out how much it would cost, plus hardware/software to build you that all new computer to your specs.

[ShyWriter]

Hello Steve

If there's a Microcenter in your area, check out how much it would cost, plus hardware/software to build you that all new computer to your specs.

Good thinking T but there aren't any in Florida.

Steve

[eldergeek]

.....could be twin brothers.....

Its what I look like after a long day.....