Malware divorce - enough is enough

[Bertel]

I loved Malwarebytes. It was a marriage made in computer heaven. It lived in perfect harmony with other antivirus apps like Zonealarm. It never felt like it had any impact on performance. It protected me from nefarious websites before they could even attempt to drop malware on my computer. Its scans worked quietly in the background. False positives were scant, and easily rectified.  I had paid Malwarebytes on computer and smartphone. Now I loathe Malwarebytes, because it ruined my life.

Late May, Microsoft put Windows 2004 on my machine. Everything went haywire immediateky. The machine nearly choked. Of course, I blamed it on Microsoft, and reverted the update. After 2 weeks, the update dropped again, and it again brought the machine to its knees. I had a rather dated Intel 6700K, and I thought it’s time to retire the old boy. Spent $10K for a new server with a Threadripper 3970x, and turned the “old” 16 core Threadripper 2950x with 128G memory into my daily driver Windows machine. Ran like a banshee, except for some slowdowns at the end of the day. Tried the 2004 update. Near-death experience again.  Did a complete new install (and you know how much work that can be.)  Ran really well, until, 2 days later, it suffered from yet another coronary.

I started to selectively disable apps and services. Finally disabled Malwarebytes, and the problems immediately went away. This is when I found this site, and many others who had the same problem.  I followed all the tips that amounted to performing fresh installs of the next update that would work, and if that won’t work, disable features you paid for, like ransomware protection. They never solved the problem. I felt like teleported back to the dark old days of Windows 3.1, when the standard tech-support answer was “reinstall Windows.”

Sometimes, the machine was bogged-down right after booting.  Sometimes, it ran for a few hours, then the Internet would first slow down  (I’m on a 2gbit fiber line that feels like talking to the server next door – when it works)  then the machine would become unusable altogether. A reboot would fix it …. For a while.

Once I found out that Malwarebytes was the culprit, I immediately turned off Malwarebytes when the machine slowed down – until turning off Malwarebytes was no longer possible. A few times, the 16core/32 thread machine became so slow that Malwarebytes itself would no longer react to a shutdown command. Its window turned white, and it played dead. The only escape was via the reset button.

Yesterday, new problems started. AFTER successful login, Windows would report problems with the logon info. Twice after that, ALL personalization info was gone, including the complete desktop, all email accounts in Outlook, and sundry other info. Basically, Windows was thrown back to a state after a new install. Malwarebytes robbed me of a day of my life spent reinstalling and updating everything.

Things got so bad that the Malwarebytes support tool, fired-up to document the harm done by the app, simply sat there, and forever twirled its "Run FIRST" indicator. It never finished or put any logs onto the desktop as promised. I finally had to stop it. During a second run of the support tool, I noticed a "FIRST English" icon, indicating a "script stopped." I unstopped the script, and finally, a "mbst-grab-results.zip" was put on the desktop. If anyone wants it, it’s available.

I finally lost all trust and belief in Malwarebytes, and removed it from, the Windows machine.

Reading this site, I also noticed what many people notice after a divorce, namely that I must have suffered for far longer than I realized. About a year ago, Malwarebytes started to come up with the message that ransomware protection was turned off.  I turned it back on. Or so I thought. Much later, I finally realized that it simply sat there, twirling its indicator signaling an imminent turn-on, and it never would turn-on. Countless Malwarebytes owners were led to believe that they were  protected from Ransomware while in fact, they were wide open. I followed well-meant advice that said I should disable false positive lockout. I found a better solution. I stopped Malwarebytes, restarted it, then set the protections to ON. After that, they would stay ON until the next re-boot. Sometimes the settings would survive a few re-boots, most often, they did not. Even in its failures, Malwarebytes continued to be erratic, and Malwarebyte maintenance ate more and more of my active time. Looking at this forum, I notice that these problems were reported three years ago, were promised to be fixed, and I had them as late as last week.

During the research, it also dawned on me that I had suffered from sudden Windows slowdowns for a much longer than I realized. Of course, I blamed them on an older CPU, a bad Windows install, or a virus I might have caught. I never imagined that Malwarebytes, an app that should protect me from evil, would be the culprit. The slowdowns started long before Windows 2004, but were never as pronounced, so they were ignored, or “fixed” with a re-boot.

The latest Malwarebytes update was applied this morning. All was well. Until a few hours later, the slowdowns started again. We all reach a point in life when enough is enough

Sadly, I have to divorce myself from formerly beloved Malwarebytes.  

[Malwarebytes]

***This is an automated reply***

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[Bertel]

Sorry for the typo in the headline. Unintended. No swipe at Apple.  Forum needs an edit function. 

[Firefox]

1 minute ago, Bertel said:

Forum needs an edit function. 

Hello and Welcome @Bertel

The edit feature is disabled due to spam abuse, sorry.

[Bertel]

33 minutes ago, Firefox said:

Hello and Welcome @Bertel

The edit feature is disabled due to spam abuse, sorry.

Many forums live happily with the edit function enabled by:

- Allowing the edit only to the OP

- Shutting off the edit after a certain time-frame, such as 5 minutes

Fingers slip occasionally

[Porthos]

2 hours ago, Bertel said:

Sadly, I have to divorce myself from formerly beloved Malwarebytes.  

We are here to assist. You might want to read the following pinned thread about Windows 2004 and Malwarebytes.

 

[Bertel]

I have read everything, including the advice to put off upgrading to Windows 2004. This advice won’t work for most users, because for them, the upgrade is automatic, and out of their control.  Most users won’t know that it was Malwarebytes that causes their problems.  Most users don’t know that this message board exists, and when they find out, it is too late. For most users, the computer just “doesn’t work anymore.” It is up to Malwarebytes to either make its products work with Windows (there is ample time, developers receive beta and pre-releases,) or to disable Malwarebytes with a message when Windows 2004 is detected. You are causing your paying customers  days of grief at the minimum, and thousands of $ at the maximum, because when the problems start, many users just go out and buy a new computer. And then, the problem will be back once they put Malwarebytes back on.

Also, you may not have read everything in my post.   There appear to be unaddressed problems from long before Windows 2004. The slowdowns were there, just not as bad as now. The issues with settings that won’t turn on were there for at least 3 years, and I had them as late as last week.

This matter can’t be handled by tech support, it needs to be addressed by top management, now.  

[Porthos]

1 minute ago, Bertel said:

 There appear to be unaddressed problems from long before Windows 2004. The slowdowns were there, just not as bad as now. The issues with settings that won’t turn on were there for at least 3 years

Those could have been addressed with you in this forum.

1 minute ago, Bertel said:

You are causing your paying customers  days of grief at the minimum, and thousands of $ at the maximum, because when the problems start, many users just go out and buy a new computer. And then, the problem will be back once they put Malwarebytes back on.

We understand that is sometimes the case.

2 minutes ago, Bertel said:

the upgrade is automatic, and out of their control.

This is totally untrue if all previous feature updates were done in the past. Feature updates are only supported for 18 months which means you can get away without doing 2 possibly 3 before it is "forced".

Now if you do a manual check for updates you will see the following and if you do not click download and install it wont until it is nearing the end of support.

 

[KenW]

This is no help for you, but I have NO problems on 3 Intel and one AMD cpu.  Three of which are running 2004, the last is still on 1909 and runs fine.

[Maurice Naggar]

Regret to read about all this.   But the description given about yesterday & login .....sure sounds similar to Windows having a glitch with the login profile.

If so, that would explain the seeming "loss" of everything.  However, that's only because Windows would have started up in a temporary profile.  

All the "stuff" would have still been on the disc.   While in temporary profile, one cannot "see" their stuff.   and one clue of such is when one sees a wholly unfamiliar "desktop".   Those types of snafus can happen on any Windows system. irregardless of security app.

If true, even that type of situation can be eventually overcome if caught in time.

Having a offline system backup is your best friend & lifesaver.

[GaryE]

Sadly, I agree with Bertel and no longer trust Malwarebytes. I'm happy that the product works for many, including the forum staff, of which we are often reminded, but it doesn't work properly for me and hasn't for months. I humbly suggest to the company that a more robust testing program is needed instead of releasing seriously flawed products and relying on paying users to conduct research.

Adios.

[Porthos]

15 minutes ago, GaryE said:

I humbly suggest to the company that a more robust testing program is needed instead of releasing seriously flawed products and relying on paying users to conduct research.

I just have to add. There are many testers one of which I am as a volunteer here who test each new version and report our findings. But there millions of software and hardware combinations out there and of course there are not millions of test machines testing. There are always going to be some that will take extra logs and testing after release.

No software is going to work 100% perfect on day one. But Malwarebytes always works hard to fix the issues and is doing so now.

Is every new version or update of Windows perfect?

[GaryE]

A very unprofessional response, Porthos. 

[newbie]

I agree in essence. I have turned all real time protections off in my premium version and just use it occasionally to manually scan my computer. The product was sold on the basis that it could live with other anti virus and programs, but that no longer appears to be the case. A real pity.

[Porthos]

14 minutes ago, GaryE said:

A very unprofessional response, Porthos. 

All I did was explain that it is tested as thoroughly as possible and some things have to be worked out after release. All software programs experience this at times.

It is your computer and you time. I understand many are frustrated. I now have 4 clients that are using an older version because of issues. The other 400 no issues yet.

I apologize you did not think my reply was professional. Keep in mind I do not work for Malwarebytes and speak for my self as someone just like you when things do not work correctly.

 

 

[Porthos]

15 minutes ago, newbie said:

I agree in essence. I have turned all real time protections off in my premium version and just use it occasionally to manually scan my computer. The product was sold on the basis that it could live with other anti virus and programs, but that no longer appears to be the case. A real pity.

@newbie I only see this one post in your history so I have no info about you computer. We would love to assist you. If you like we could assist please just create you own topic and we will work with you to get Malwarebytes working with your AV program in most cases.

[rcferris]

I have just updated MWB to Version 4.1.273; Update package Version 1.0.2675 and Component Version 1.0.976. 

I have had same problems described above with the Win10 2004 update, and had to uninstall.  I now have all updates turned off.

My question for this forum is whether anyone else has the MWB updates I noted above, and the Win10 2004 update, and if so, are they playing nice together?

I ask this because I don't want to to go thru uninstalling the Win10 update again.

Thanks

 

 

[Porthos]

7 minutes ago, rcferris said:

I ask this because I don't want to to go thru uninstalling the Win10 update again.

If you happen to have issues you should not uninstall 2004.

Just create your own separate topic and we will assist with Malwarebytes itself.

[Bertel]

6 minutes ago, rcferris said:

I have just updated MWB to Version 4.1.273; Update package Version 1.0.2675 and Component Version 1.0.976. 

I have had same problems described above with the Win10 2004 update, and had to uninstall.  I now have all updates turned off.

My question for this forum is whether anyone else has the MWB updates I noted above, and the Win10 2004 update, and if so, are they playing nice together?

I ask this because I don't want to to go thru uninstalling the Win10 update again.

Thanks

 

 

See my next post. On Sunday, I was at Malwarebytes version 4.1..2.73  Update package version 1.0.26421 and Component package version 1.0.976. It failed.  When It failed again after a completely new and virgin install  of Windows, Malwarebytes was banned from my computer.

[Porthos]

Just now, Bertel said:

See my next post. On Sunday, I was at Malwarebytes version 4.1..2.73  Update package version 1.0.26421 and Component package version 1.0.976. It failed.  When It failed again after a completely new and virgin install  of Windows, Malwarebytes was banned from my computer.

Each computer is different. Not all users have the same issues as you do.

You are welcome to keep Malwarebytes "banned" if you wish.

Quote

You also have the option of reverting to an earlier component package version, which will allow you to keep  Protection enabled.
You can download this from here: https://malwarebytes.box.com/s/z6cravnwptrzx5tyjw36jq6zt6c7apsx

Once installed, you will need to disable the two update options found in Settings -> General -> Application updates to prevent the product from updating back to the affected version.

I suggest using the following clean install guide.

Please do the following Uninstall and reinstall using the Malwarebytes Support Tool

Please have lots of patience with the tool.  The first phase is a cleanup and does require a Windows Restart.
After the Restart, it may take 2 - 3 - 4 minutes till the Support tool screen shows up.   Please be patient and have faith.  Wait for it, whatever it takes.
The 2nd phase is where it offers to do a new Install. Say no and use the download from my above link and install the old version and disable the update before you do anything else.

It is your choice. We are just trying to assist until the root cause is found.

[Bertel]

@Porthos, before you continue patronizing me, allow me to send you a picture of my (messy) desk.  Ever since I hand-soldered an Altair S100 back in 1975, I have been into and around computers, hopefully for longer than you have been alive. I have been a Windows developer (hardware and software) long before Windows 3.1 arrived. Yes, I am that old.

There is no need to lecture me how Windows updates work. As someone who services computers for “real people” you should know how updates work for “real people.” Updates arrive, the user will accept them, and a re-boot later, the updates are on the machine.  Also, the common user would have no reason to deny the Windows 2004 update. With Malwarebytes on the machine, he or she will become aware of a slowdown only after the update, and the user will in all likelihood not suspect Malwarebytes as causing the problem anyway. If you ask your customers whether they have Windows 2004 on their machine, most will likely answer “no, my computer is much newer than that.”

@Maurice Naggar, there likewise is no need to lecture me on the need for timely backups. My Windows machine (center) has twice-daily backups made by Acronis, a product I can heartily recommend. On top of it, the Windows machine AND the backups are saved by a Linux server (left) to its own RAID, with restorable versions going back for months.  Windows doesn’t see the server, and the server only has read access to Windows.  The server RAID then is mirrored  to an off-site server (not pictured) via fiber line.  Furthermore, what you seem to ignore is that backups are there to protect the user from ransomware, errant software, drive failures, fires, and thunderstorms. The idea of a backup definitely is not to protect the user from Malwarebytes.

I can understand that the first reflex of an online support person would be to treat a problem like it was posted by a complete noob and idiot, that the second reflex is to keep the user busy filing reports, and that the third is to promise that the next awesome update will solve all problems. You should suppress these urges. You are the face of the company, whether you actually work for them, or not. Your job is to classify problems, to see patterns, and to raise internal hell when problems are not fixed. Internally, you are the voice of the customer, and you should raise that voice. Did you?

Sadly, I have reason to doubt that. Let’s use an example that can be illustrated easier than the dreaded 2004 Windows collapse.  Last Sunday, when I booted up the Windows machine for the last time before I made a completely new install, I was greeted by this by now very familiar message:

Now, what would the average user do? Of course, the user would click on the “Turn On,” and would go on his or her merry way, thinking that by now, real-time protection is on.  But it won’t be on.

Would the user open Malwarebytes,  he or she would see that Ransomware Protection is not on.  Of course, the user would turn it on after that. What will happen next?

Noting would happen. That little indicator next to “Ransomware Protection” would turn, and, turn, and turn, and no Ransomware Protection would turn on.  The user would be wide open to ransomware attacks, and a big chunk of the $40 that were paid for Malwarebytes were for naught.  But maybe the user was lucky: Turning off anti-ransomware appears to be the prime “solution” to the dreaded Windows 2004 coronary anyway.

Of course, the first reflex of an online support person would be to tell me: “Make sure you have the latest version.” Let’s see.

These are the versions that were installed as of last Sunday. They were updated at 9:04 in the morning. If they are not the very latest, not my fault.

 

As you can see, Malwarebytes was set to automatic updates. And any manual updating should be superfluous.

If we look back at that past years, we will see that the updates were mostly feel-good snakeoil, at least as far as the errant real-time protection goes.

Going back in time, we will see that the problem I saw as late as last Sunday (I saved the NVME  drive  Windows is installed on) appears to be as old as anti-ransomware itself, and years later, it remains unaddressed, countless promises notwithstanding.

With a very cursory Google search, I found mentions of the suddenly disabled real-time protection way back in early 2016.   The answer basically was radio silence for a year. Finally in September 2017, you, @Porthos recommended  “installing the latest 3.2.2.202”

Well, it did not solve the problem.  A year later, the forum was filled with the same complaints.

 Help had (allegedly) arrived on August 30, 2018, when, with great fanfare, a new version was announced that would fix the nasty problem.

Well, it did not solve the problem.  By the end of 2018, the problems were still there.

Summer of 2019 arrived, and real-time protection still did not turn on.

By now, you can guess what happened in December 2018.  

Can you guess what happened in early 2020? You guessed it!   “Real-Time Protection turned off and won't switch back on”  was back on the forum.  

By now, the problem is more than four years old, and as of last Sunday morning, is was still alive. “Malwarebytes real-time protection turned off” has turned into a big hit on Google, the search returned 249,000 results for me.

Looking at Malwarebyte’s  dismal record of addressing the rather simple problem of preserving the state of a setting, one can imagine how stumped Malwarebytes is by the 2004 disaster that may very well break the company’s neck, or turn into a class action lawsuit.

Let me repeat myself: My long love for Malwarebytes has ended. I feel abused, and cheated. And you, gentlemen, should be ashamed of enabling and protecting the cheater.

Malwarebytes is off my machine, which now for the first time in a long while feels zippy and responsive. Virus-checking and sundry other functions are performed by Zonealarm. Serious ransomware protection is being performed by Acronis, and if all hell breaks loose, I have versioned backups going many months back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bertel]

10 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Each computer is different. Not all users have the same issues as you do.

You need to start reading. As I said, the last install was a completely virgin install. I used the very latest MediaCreationTool2004, and installed on a  reformatted NVME drive. I added Microsoft Office and Adobe CC.  There are thousands, if not millions of similar machines out there.

[Porthos]

27 minutes ago, Bertel said:

The user would be wide open to ransomware attacks, and a big chunk of the $40 that were paid for Malwarebytes were for naught. 

I am not trying to patronize you in any way. Yes there have been many bugs since Malwarebytes started in 2008. Most have been fixed quite quickly.

I have not personally had the same issues as you.

I do not wish to debate all the issues you researched and quoted. You are correct things have happened.

Now for the above quote, since it is relevant to turning off ransomware protection.

The Ransomware Protection component is the least proactive in Malwarebytes because it relies entirely on active application behavior in memory to make detections, meaning your system would first need to actually be infected by a live ransomware threat for Ransomware Protection to detect anything.  This is extremely unlikely since you still have the other more proactive components active which should prevent any infection from infiltrating your system in the first place, including ransomware.

27 minutes ago, Bertel said:

I have versioned backups going many months back.

I too preach and have proper backups as well.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Porthos

[Porthos]

6 minutes ago, Bertel said:

You need to start reading. As I said, the last install was a completely virgin install. I used the very latest MediaCreationTool2004, and installed on a  reformatted NVME drive. I added Microsoft Office and Adobe CC.  There are thousands, if not millions of similar machines out there.

I read it fully. Not every piece of hard ware is exactly the same. Driver versions, software versions, age of system etc. 

I NEVER said you are wrong in any way or that you or your system is the cause. You are/were a victim like the others. There is an issue and it affects each setup differently and some not at all.

I would be in a world of pain if the issue affected all of my 400+ managed client systems. Only 4 are having any issues with Malwarebytes.

[Bertel]

18 minutes ago, Porthos said:

The Ransomware Protection component is the least proactive in Malwarebytes because it relies entirely on active application behavior in memory to make detections, meaning your system would first need to actually be infected by a live ransomware threat for Ransomware Protection to detect anything.  This is extremely unlikely since you still have the other more proactive components active which should prevent any infection from infiltrating your system in the first place, including ransomware.

 

@porthos, you are not doing Malwarebytes a big favor with your combative and arrogant stance.

“It works on my machine” is the deadly sin of tech support, and it will land you in hell.

Whoever does the marketing for Malwarebytes, touting Ransomware Protection as using “proprietary tech to create a powerful defense against malware that locks down your PC and takes your files and photos hostage,” will explode when reading on Malwarebyte’s own support forum that the proprietary tech “is the least proactive,” and that the recommendation is to switch it off altogether.