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Version 4 issues


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I've been a MWB premium users for many years. After the fiasco of PCs crashing for months when V3 came out, I hesitated to use v4 immediately.

I tried it a few days ago and was disappointed that the "compatability mode" is no longer there, allowing MWB to properly run live with Windows Defender, although I understand the reasons for this. I've therefore reverted to 3.8 and will continue to run it until such a time as independent test results show it's as capable as I hope.

For what it's worth mentioning, I also noticed some sluggishness with v4, but not the severe problems mentioned by the OP.

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You can still run Malwarebytes 4 alongside Windows Defender, you simply need to disable the option under Windows Security Center in Malwarebytes under settings in the Security tab (click the gear icon in the upper right corner of the UI to access settings).  Once you do that, restart your system and Windows Defender should be active again.  We have many users running this combination without any issues so it should work on your system as well, however if you are experiencing performance issues then it is likely related to an issue with some systems and version 4 that is currently being investigated by Malwarebytes' Developers.

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On 1/4/2020 at 3:38 PM, exile360 said:

You can still run Malwarebytes 4 alongside Windows Defender, you simply need to disable the option under Windows Security Center in Malwarebytes under settings in the Security tab (click the gear icon in the upper right corner of the UI to access settings).  Once you do that, restart your system and Windows Defender should be active again.  We have many users running this combination without any issues so it should work on your system as well, however if you are experiencing performance issues then it is likely related to an issue with some systems and version 4 that is currently being investigated by Malwarebytes' Developers.

Hi Exile,

Thanks for the suggestion. However, previously in 3.x there were three options to co-exist or replace WD, but in 4x there are only two options.

My point is the the missing option appeared to allow a fine-tuned co-existence between WD and MWBP (Premium). This missing option is -

"Let Malwarebytes choose whether to register: Malwarebytes will determine whether it should be registered in Action Center. The program will not register when Microsoft Security Essentials is in use on a Windows 7 or older operating system. It will also not register when Windows Defender is used on a Windows 8 or newer OS."

The remaining 4.x two options are to either a) replace WD or else b) run MWBP fully in parallel with WD. My concern about the latter is that this will lead to a fight between MWBP and WD whenever malware is spotted by both, whereas the third missing option suggests that MWBP would cede to WD whever WD decides to jump onto malware?

Perhaps my understanding and expectations are incorrect or naive, but perhaps you can clarify the situation regarding these setting and my observations?

Thanks,

Cavehomme

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1 hour ago, Cavehomme said:

My concern about the latter is that this will lead to a fight between MWBP and WD whenever malware is spotted by both

That will not happen since Malwarebytes acts upon execution or on scan only. Defender acts on download, folder access or during scan.

Just downloading or opening a folder with malware on it will not trigger detection. You would have to run the malicious file or manually scan it or the folder containing it.

The component that blocks on download is the web protection blocking bad sites and IP's.

That is why MB is compatible with most 3rd party AV programs.

And MB will not act on the following files during a scan.

Malwarebytes does not target script files during a scan.. That means MB will not target; JS, HTML, VBS, .CLASS, SWF, BAT, CMD, PDF, PHP, etc.

It also does not target documents such as; PDF, DOC, DOCx, XLS, XLSx, PPT, PPS, ODF, etc.

It also does not target media files;  MP3, WMV, JPG, GIF, etc.

Malwarebytes will detect files like these on execution only.

Defender will get those if they are in the database or their cloud scanning detects it.

 

Edited by Porthos
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29 minutes ago, Porthos said:

That will not happen since Malwarebytes acts upon execution or on scan only. Defender acts on download, folder access or during scan.

Just downloading or opening a folder with malware on it will not trigger detection. You would have to run the malicious file or manually scan it or the folder containing it.

The component that blocks on download is the web protection blocking bad sites and IP's.

That is why MB is compatible with most 3rd party AV programs.

And MB will not act on the following files during a scan.

Malwarebytes does not target script files during a scan.. That means MB will not target; JS, HTML, VBS, .CLASS, SWF, BAT, CMD, PDF, PHP, etc.

It also does not target documents such as; PDF, DOC, DOCx, XLS, XLSx, PPT, PPS, ODF, etc.

It also does not target media files;  MP3, WMV, JPG, GIF, etc.

Malwarebytes will detect files like these on execution only.

Defender will get those if they are in the database or their cloud scanning detects it.

 

That's helpful, thanks. But why the change from 3 to 2 options, and what / why have we lost as a consequence precisely?

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20 minutes ago, Cavehomme said:

That's helpful, thanks. But why the change from 3 to 2 options, and what / why have we lost as a consequence precisely?

If you let MB decide, it seems to always disable Defender. So now the choice of one or the other. Less confusion. Any program that registers in the security center will automatically disable Defender.

I would prefer it to never register automatically unless activated in settings my self.

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1 minute ago, Porthos said:

If you let MB decide, it seems to always disable Defender. So now the choice of one or the other. Less confusion. Any program that registers in the security center will automatically disable Defender.

I would prefer it to never register automatically unless activated in settings my self.

..so that suggest to me that losing the thoird options means that we've therefore lost some fine tuning in the co-existence of MWBP and WD...back to my original point!  :wacko:

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5 minutes ago, Cavehomme said:

..so that suggest to me that losing the thoird options means that we've therefore lost some fine tuning in the co-existence of MWBP and WD...back to my original point!  :wacko:

Coexisting with Defender REQUIRES keeping MB from registering in the security center so no third option needed. Third option did not work during the BETA testing of MB 4 so now it is only 2 options, on or off. Keep in mind, I am only referring to current versions of Windows 10. (1903 and 1909) Defender in the latest versions is different than before.

Edited by Porthos
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Also, Since Malwarebytes believes that the only security you need active is Malwarebytes (I still disagree because how MB works and file types it does not detect) The default is to register in the security center.

Defender will detect many threats before they are even run because MB is an on execute protection. So if the web protection misses a bad site and I download something bad Defender usually gets it before I get a chance to run it and have MB catch it.

 

Edited by Porthos
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Regardless on naming or nomenclature  if you turn off the register feature for Windows Security Center under Settings, Security as shown below then Microsoft Windows Defender will in fact enable itself and be fully operational alongside Malwarebytes without an issue. I run it this way myself.

image.png

 

image.png

 

image.png

 

I don't enable sample submission or Tamper Protection as a personal choice

 

image.png

image.png

 

 

 

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On 1/8/2020 at 9:24 PM, Porthos said:

Also, Since Malwarebytes believes that the only security you need active is Malwarebytes (I still disagree because how MB works and file types it does not detect) The default is to register in the security center.

Defender will detect many threats before they are even run because MB is an on execute protection. So if the web protection misses a bad site and I download something bad Defender usually gets it before I get a chance to run it and have MB catch it.

 

I've highlighted your text which I'm most concerned about, it means that MWB is still not a sufficient replacement for AV, or at least not for Defender. That's why I am running both, but I do also wonder that now we have just two choices for MWB status rather than three, that something subtle has been lost in the relationship between the two programs running simultaneously. In other words, my worry is that perhaps MWB does not know that it should delegate to Defender to resolve a problem, and instead may fight with it.

Anyway, as far a v4 is concerned, it's not stable enough to run on my business laptop, this weekend it conflicted with my WiFi driver (same driver version for several months, so it's not an issue with an updated driver) and I spent an hour troubleshooting, initially thinking that the router had an issue. I've reverted to 3.8 and all is well again.

Overall, I'm getting concerned that MWB direction is to compete with / replace WD rather than being just complementary to it. There are so many AVs out there, very well funded too, so there's no point in MWB competing with them, and there's no point in competing against Defender because it's now so good, but an extra layer to monitor and pounce is all that's needed. Loads of people are going back to Defender, so MWB would be better served by properly working alongside , or on top of Defender, rather than trying to replace it.

 

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