Another Windows 7 x64 freeze after the 1.0.508 update

[exile360]

51 minutes ago, COBKA said:

I also have that belief. I can't remember the exact timing but my system wouldn't load Chrome one day and it was because the Avast Web Shield had crashed and wouldn't reload. I had to uninstall it to get Chrome working again. I believe this happened around the time I started to get freezing. As I mentioned earlier in this thread Avast Free version 19.1.2360 was released a week or so ago and I am hopeful it is more compatible. 

Yes, and while I know this isn't always the cause (sometimes the issue is caused by the Ransomware Protection component, and sometimes it's not a conflict with an AV at all), we have seen many reports where that indeed was the case, particularly with Avast, Bitdefender and ESET and I've also seen some reports about similar issues with AVG, Avira and Kaspersky with the latest Malwarebytes release.

Edited January 10, 2019 by exile360

[LiquidTension]

15 hours ago, abs7125 said:

I have to agree, with this user. Your statement of only a few users being affected, due to your "telemetry results", is poor.  It took me a couple days, of troubleshooting, before I was able to find out you guys where the cause. Based on all the responses just from THIS form, I would say its a more serious problem, then your admitting to. I am sure there are many users, who have no idea, their system issues, are because of Maleware. You guys need to do a better job, owning up to the fact, you caused software damage, to ALLOT of users.

The statement is based on total number of computers actively running Malwarebytes, detection reports, telemetry streams sent from each client upon certain events and other data. With that said, we very much understand the significance and impact of this issue, which is why we have dedicated a substantial amount of internal resources into finding a solution. We certainly acknowledge that this is a serious issue, but also wanted to provide insight into why we have yet to revert the components package update to the previous version.

[robhab]

I do not have Avast installed (only MSE), and yet I have the  exact same freezing problem that started  the same time (and right after Microsoft updated the virus definitions in MSE).  The freezing problem stopped when I deactivated MBAM Web Protection. 

Logic indicates that the problem is not exclusive to Avast (or Norton).  Likewise, I have a different network adapter than reported by others with this problem.  Again, this indicates that a particular network adapter is not the cause of this problem.   

 

[LiquidTension]

15 hours ago, LAVA said:

To MBAM staff, et-al:

Saw this post over on TenForums.com   Identical to symptoms when I began troubleshooting freezes on a Dell T3610... including speaker anomaly.

https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/123256-random-freeze-preceeded-sudden-speaker-static.html

Thank you for reporting this. However, as mentioned, the issue does predate the release of components package 1.0.508 and therefore appears to be unrelated to this particular issue.

[jasongillman]

I should probably temper my enthusiasm.

I had re-enabled the Web protection yesterday, after seeing the update

19 hours ago, jasongillman said:

The updates today
1. Security Update for Microsoft windows (KB4480970)
2. Update for Microsoft Windows (KB4480063)

And was happy that for the entire day of work, I had no issues.

I then updated my other machine, enabled web protection, and experienced a lock-up immediately.  I had a feeling that even with a day of success with my work machine, that upon start up today, it would revert to the issue.  My concern was realized, and had to disable the web protection to make THIS Win7 Pro 64 Bit box usable.

I am not sure what allowed me to go the entire day, but it is possible that the scan had already completed for the day when I re-enabled the web protection.

Obviously, the problem is not yet solved.

[exile360]

There is a conflict with Avast, however that is not the only cause for this issue (as I mentioned, there are currently multiple AV conflicts with build 508 of Malwarebytes) and it is indeed happening on some systems where no third party AV is installed.  So basically it's the same symptoms with multiple causes which may or may not be the result of the same change to the code in the Web Protection component in build 508 (i.e. there may be multiple causes/changes in the code resulting in different issues which need to be tracked down and fixed, but only the Developers can know that for certain).

Whether it is caused by specific hardware/drivers is also currently unknown at this time, but that is one area they are exploring, collecting info on network adapters from affected users.

[AjaxH]

16 hours ago, mkaz said:

I have no doubt that you and the rest of the staff are working this issue hard.  But I do have to ask how your telemetry will pick up users with freezes in this scenario:

1. User A has freeze issues and uses Malwarebytes
2. User A does not know how to troubleshoot this
3. User A does not know the impact from Malwarebytes (or other interaction)
4. User A has not input a ticket with Malwarebytes for the issue because he has not troubleshot this down to Malwarebytes yet nor found or visited the forum
5. User A has performed force shutdowns numerous times
6. User B is part of a company whose IT staff adjusted or removed Malwarebytes and did not communicate this to your company.  Freezes and force shutdowns led up to this decision.
7. There are plenty more scenarios of this kind that one can think of

You telemetry picks up all the force shutdowns around the world???

With all due respect to MB, mkaz is right: like almost everyone here, I stumbled onto this issue after several days of trial-and-error, a costly process in a profession where using computers is necessary. It was so frustrating having to do all sorts of nutty things to "unstick" windows (unload NVIDIA, reload drivers, blah blah blah). 

>>> Instead of apologizing here (preaching to the choir), I suggest MB should have and could have sent all MB users an email alerting us of this issue. 

So many days wasted because of MB's asinine and petulant attitude. 

 

[exile360]

18 minutes ago, AjaxH said:

Instead of apologizing here (preaching to the choir), I suggest MB should have and could have sent all MB users an email alerting us of this issue.

I doubt they could ever do that without setting off just about every spam filter on Earth due to the sheer number of users/customers they have, not to mention the fact that Malwarebytes doesn't collect the email address of every user of the Premium version (i.e. trials, not to mention licenses purchased through third party resellers as well as retail boxed versions which only require a valid license key and never prompt for registration via email), so while that certainly would have kept the customers who purchased the software direct from the Malwarebytes website informed, none of the other users would have received the notification/email, and again, I'm sure attempting to do so would have set off spam filters everywhere because mail servers are way more strict about that sort of thing these days (i.e. sending out too many duplicate messages to too many users at the same time).

I'm not saying they've handled everything perfectly; I just don't think email would be the solution, especially since a lot of people seldom check the email addresses they use when purchasing software as they'll often keep a separate address for that sort of thing (signing up for websites, registering software etc.) with a different address for actual personal communication which they check much more regularly, that way they cut down on the amount of spam/advertising emails/promotions and such that show up in their personal inboxes.

[AjaxH]

3 minutes ago, exile360 said:

I doubt they could ever do that without setting off just about every spam filter on Earth due to the sheer number of users/customers they have, not to mention the fact that Malwarebytes doesn't collect the email address of every user of the Premium version (i.e. trials, not to mention licenses purchased through third party resellers as well as retail boxed versions which only require a valid license key and never prompt for registration via email), so while that certainly would have kept the customers who purchased the software direct from the Malwarebytes website informed, none of the other users would have received the notification/email, and again, I'm sure attempting to do so would have set off spam filters everywhere because mail servers are way more strict about that sort of thing these days (i.e. sending out too many duplicate messages to too many users at the same time).

I'm not saying they've handled everything perfectly; I just don't think email would be the solution, especially since a lot of people seldom check the email addresses they use when purchasing software as they'll often keep a separate address for that sort of thing (signing up for websites, registering software etc.) with a different address for actual personal communication which they check much more regularly, that way they cut down on the amount of spam/advertising emails/promotions and such that show up in their personal inboxes.

So imagine there was a viral infection going around. We shouldn't let some people know because we can't inform everyone? 

Give me a break. It would've been better to inform as many people as possible. 

I get it -- MB doesn't want bad publicity and are trying to "hide" this issue for over a month now. But, frankly, they should have worked harder to inform people. If not by e-mail then social media, MS forums, etc (just google "windows 7 freezing up January 2019") and you'll see lots of forums with clueless and desperate PC users

 

[exile360]

That's not what I'm saying.  I'm just saying email isn't the way to go.  A public posting on their website or a message/notification in the product would be much more effective.  Word spreads, especially in the tech scene, and no one is trying to hide anything (they wouldn't have created FAQs about this stuff if they were trying to hide it, and certainly wouldn't be addressing the issues and assisting users in public if they were; they'd force everyone to contact them on the helpdesk to keep it private in email).

[torus_ot]

37 minutes ago, AjaxH said:

So many days wasted because of MB's asinine and petulant attitude. 

I am so disagree with you, and I think I am not alone.

Just provide additional information (as MB asked) to help resolve the issue. Bashing around  is not helpful, except stress reliving 😏 

[abs7125]

This response from MB, is pathetic! It shows how out of touch with reality, they really are! Come on already. The only reason your email would me marked as spam, is if the filter has listed your company as questionable. I doubt that is the case with MB. I am sure most people who purchase software, actually do use their email, and check it, expecting information from the manufacture, when they have issues!

[abs7125]

FYI, this is not isolated to AVG. I am using security essentials. Also, it is not related to the network adapter. My Laptop has the same 2 adapters, I previously listed, and no issues. Running the same version of Win 7 as my PC.

[exile360]

15 minutes ago, abs7125 said:

This response from MB, is pathetic! It shows how out of touch with reality, they really are! Come on already. The only reason your email would me marked as spam, is if the filter has listed your company as questionable. I doubt that is the case with MB. I am sure most people who purchase software, actually do use their email, and check it, expecting information from the manufacture, when they have issues!

What response from MB?  I don't work for Malwarebytes in case you hadn't noticed, and I guess you don't know much about automated spam filters and the kinds of activities they tend to flag because that's what I'm talking about there.  I know because back when I did work for Malwarebytes years ago, our newsletter got flagged by several email providers as spam even though every user who received it had signed up for it and the company had never been flagged before that so it was all about the numbers.  Either way it doesn't matter because we both agree that informing more people would have been better and is something we'd both like to see going forward; we just disagree on the method.  I'm saying email wouldn't be enough and might not work, you seem to be saying their website/forums aren't enough and they should have used email.  Either way they're still here working with users trying to find the cause and fix it.

As for Malwarebytes' official response, all they've been doing is gathering info and trying to help affected users and publishing info in FAQs etc.  I haven't checked their social media channels, but they might have posted about it there too (they sometimes do when an issue comes up, but it probably depends on how many users are impacted, though that's just my guess).

14 minutes ago, abs7125 said:

FYI, this is not isolated to AVG. I am using security essentials. Also, it is not related to the network adapter. My Laptop has the same 2 adapters, I previously listed, and no issues. Running the same version of Win 7 as my PC.

Again, it's not isolated to any one (or even multiple) AV, though it is known to be caused in some cases by a conflict with certain AVs (I know this because I've had users with this issue who had one of the aforementioned AVs and once they disabled the web protection component in the AV, the issue went away), and yes, there are a wide variety of system hardware configurations, but again, it's not consistent.  I don't know of any single common cause for this issue so far.  I'm running Windows 7 x64 myself and have yet to experience this issue, though I was able to replicate one of the freezing issues caused by the Ransomware Protection component (which I normally keep disabled, so I wasn't aware of it until I turned it on to test).  Web Protection hasn't caused me any issues so far, but why that is we still don't know.  My guess is there are multiple triggers for it and that I just so happen to be running a configuration where none of those triggers are present.

Edited January 10, 2019 by exile360

[jweigang]

I would like to thank Bleeping Computer for their article about this problem, which I found in their Twitter stream after struggling for six days to diagnose the freezes on a friend's laptop (which had started back on Dec 18).

It would have taken me a LONG time to identify MBAM as the cause because her laptop ran FINE at my place, for 15+ hours, connected to a Cisco DP3939 router, but invariably failed within 2 hrs or so at her place, using a Netgear N600 WNDR3400v3 router. It froze at her place using both the built-in WiFi (Intel, I think) and an external Alfa AWUS036H (Realtek) wifi, so I was looking towards the router or modem as causes.

Rather embarrassing, because I was the one who recommended she sign up with Malwarebytes after her Avast subscription expired. But if MBAM weren't so generally reliable, I might have tried disabling it in the course of trying to identify the cause. The fact that it worked perfectly on one router and not another was the diagnostic killer for me.
 

[AnotherConcernedCitizen]

While user frustration is understandable, the expectations are not. Like you all, I expect this sort of software to quietly run in the background & do its job, but...

- The underlying code is, no doubt, complex.

- The matrix of supported OS/hardware/installed software combinations is VAST, & testing is only as good as volunteer beta testers/internal teams can manage prior to releasee. Even MS, who has used its user-base as beta testers FOR DECADES, cannot guarantee an "Aw SH*T" doesn't escape to the field... EVER. When was the last time you got an e-mail from MS about a bug in the wild?

What I suggest (based on experience, including the last MBAM/Avast conflict):

-  Disable automatic PROGRAM updates & opt for a notification instead.

- Resist the urge to immediately update... give it some time & check this forum (obvious place?) for reports of 'bad things'.

- When you DO decide to install an update, you now have a specific time frame if/when said 'bad things' start happening. You will know exactly (well, almost) what caused an issue.

If your PC is important to your existence, you'll only end up frustrated when something goes wrong & you've just blindly accepted changes. No [petty much anything] is perfect.

Just some free, friendly advice from an old fart... take it for what it's worth.

Me? Ignoring some of my own advice,  I immediately jumped on this on Dec. 7 when it was released, but when things started behaving badly, I had a pretty good idea where to start looking & what to try. I LOVE a mystery! YMMV

Support was on this from the start, but it wasn't widespread & clearly obscure. If support asks for input, pony up. Otherwise, just DISABLE.WEB PROTECTION & give them time.

Some additional clarifications:

- This lock-up happens w/ MBAM alone, for the affected users. An AV product does NOT appear to be required.

- With Avast (my testing) installed, the failure profile changes... AvastSVC (et al) slowly consumes available system resources until exhausted & the system SEEMS unresponsive. Never had the patience to see if it eventually locked up before power-cycling. Similar behavior has since been reported with other AV products.

[jweigang]

Attached is the requested troubleshooting information. I don't know how useful this will be, because I ran mbst AFTER uninstalling the problematic '508 version of MBAM and installing the previous version (Workaround #2). Non-tech user is sick & tired of computer freezing and doesn't want to reinstall 508 to duplicate problem.

The previous version is working fine on this system; no crashes in 18 hours or so.

mbst-grab-results.zip

[exile360]

No worries, you don't need to replicate the issue again.  Just getting the logs from your system helps I'm sure, as they just want to try and narrow down the environmental factors/software and hardware configurations where the issue occurs as that will hopefully aid the Developers in tracking down the source of the problem in the code.

[jweigang]

Some notes about applying Workaround #2:
After installing the previous version of MBAM, I immediately turned off application updates.
For some reason, the version didn't remember the activation key, so I entered it to engage premium.
In doing so, the application updates slider got turned back on and I had to turn it off again.

I suggest inserting a line into the "Malwarebytes for Windows and Windows 7 Freeze/Lock-up" writeup, under Known Workarounds #2, as follows:

 * Run the downloaded setup file...
>* Reenter your license key if necessary to activate the product, and after doing so,
 * To prevent the program from automatically...

If people don't notice that activation has turned app updates back on, they may think that Workaround 2 works only for a while.

[COBKA]

Well the new version of Avast didn't help. I've just had my first lock-up since 4th January - ie 6 days. I attach logs but I think I will revert back to previous component version until a fix is forthcoming.

mbst-grab-results.zip

[SubyTooner]

Windows 7 sp1 64 pc build.

I've been a Malwarebytes user since the start. Back when it was Pro and a one time fee, lifetime license.

I never post on these types of forums and only found out about this after posting on askwoody.

I spent almost 3 days troubleshooting for a fix to the freeze. I'm overclocked, so when this type of issue arises it's a big deal. I should've known better after last years BSOD debacle to search for a MB related issue.

I'm not here to bash and I hope this is fixed ASAP. I will still keep using MB as I've never had a virus while with it.

This is more widespread then MB staff think. That's just my 2 cents.

I've uninstalled MB and re-installed with previous component package and so far no freezes. This should have been done by MB as a reverted update.

The freeze only occurs for me with an ASUS usb-ac53 1200 adapter. It wouldn't freeze using a Huawei 4g usb wireless dongle.

Good luck to all working on this and happy unfreeze d new year!

 

 

[SubyTooner]

Just to add to my last post.

I've always used AVAST free alongside MB. I know they don't like each other...lol...but that's just how I roll.

MB for life!

[MajesticWi]

Discussions about Windows 7 Reliability History caused me to take a peek at my desktop.  According to the log, the machine was pretty stable until 09/19/2018 which is the date I installed version 3.6.1.2711 of Malwarebytes.   Prior to 09/19/2018 I would have an occasional note on the history about Windows not being shut down properly.  This error is related to an unknown application that was slow to close when I shut down the system.   After 09/19/2018 errors related to mbamservice.exe start to appear in the history on a regular basis and after 12/06/2018, when 1.0.508 was installed, is when the hard freezes started happening. 

Is it possible the problem between Malwarebytes and Windows 7 started with version 3.6.1.2711 and then became worse with the 1.0.508 update?
 

 

 

Reliability Monitor Report.zip

[AnotherConcernedCitizen]

3 minutes ago, MajesticWi said:

Discussions about Windows 7 Reliability History caused me to take a peek at my desktop.  According to the log, the machine was pretty stable until 09/19/2018 which is the date I installed version 3.6.1.2711 of Malwarebytes.   Prior to 09/19/2018 I would have an occasional note on the history about Windows not being shut down properly.  This error is related to an unknown application that was slow to close when I shut down the system.   After 09/19/2018 errors related to mbamservice.exe start to appear in the history on a regular basis and after 12/06/2018, when 1.0.508 was installed, is when the hard freezes started happening. 

Is it possible the problem between Malwarebytes and Windows 7 started with version 3.6.1.2711 and then became worse with the 1.0.508 update?
 

 

 

Reliability Monitor Report.zip

Based on my own (sample-of-one B^) Windows 7 Reliability History , my bet would be on 'No', although realtime AV/AM tools historically tend to cause such issues. I've run Avast Premier/MBAM Premium side-by-each for years & with the exception of the occasional update-induced 'feud', I rarely see that sort of issue despite the amount of functional overlap between the 2. I personally subscribe to the 'layered defense' model.

[COBKA]

2 hours ago, COBKA said:

Well the new version of Avast didn't help. I've just had my first lock-up since 4th January - ie 6 days. I attach logs but I think I will revert back to previous component version until a fix is forthcoming.

I meant to add that with this freeze I did not even have a browser open, merely an Exel Spreadsheet and a little program which is little more than a glorified calculator. From memory I don't think any of the previous freezes have occured with either of these programs in use! However, I did notice that the Avast task bar icon had a blue marker indicating a notification. I couldn't read what it was because of the freeze and it was gone after hard reboot. Probably a message trying to get me to use one of their paid for services but it did make me wonder whether the Avast notification process induced the freeze.