Lessons learned on Win 8.1 and Win 10

[Dan964]

I have relied on MB to save my bacon in the past, but always removed the software after the trial period.  I recently subscribed to the 3 license package and had experienced some system instability.  In general, the problem I found with MB is that if the PC has been asleep past MB's 24 hour scan time and then wakes up, MB will, by default begin a scan.  I have found this default behavior to upset Windows processes in Win 8.1 and win 10.

I have Win 8.1 media PCs that use Media Center to record cable via a remote HD Homerun Prime.  The Prime has 3 tuners.  I let these computers sleep, as Media center will wake the PC up to do the recording.  This setup worked reliably for years.   I began having trouble losing tuners.  Media Center would fail to record because there were no tuners available.  I ran down a bunch of dead ends.  I then realized I had recently installed MB and turned my attention to it.

I have a new HP Win 10 box.  I have in the past built all my PCs and was regretting buying this HP unit as it was throwing critical errors due to corrupt files.  There were plenty of other errors as well, but the corrupt file errors bothered me.  I found plenty of other complaints on the net, but no real solutions.  I suspected the Intel Optane memory.  Again I ran down a bunch of dead ends until I looked at MB.

What I surmised in both cases was that upon waking from sleep, MB's scan process was interfering with other processes that hadn't completed starting.  MB has options to delay the scan and lower its priority.  In both cases making these adjustments stopped the errors.  So it seems to me the MBs scanning process can interfere with WIndows functions, especially when waking from sleep.   I cant think of any reason that delayed start for the scans shouldn't be the default as it seems it would save a lot of users a lot of trouble.

I hope this info helps others out there.

Dan

 

 

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[exile360]

Greetings,

Thanks for all of your testing efforts in troubleshooting this and for reporting it.  I will make certain that the Product team hears about this to ensure that it is tested in-house and hopefully corrected in the future.

If you have any further feedback for us please don't hesitate to let us know.

Thanks

[Dan964]

Well it seems I spoke too soon.  After waiting over a week with no errors I posted my success story above.  But yesterday my Win 10 system starting throwing errors again.  I've shut down MB to see what's what (I use MS defender as well).

I'll see how this goes and if errors go away, I'll turn on Real Time Prot bit by bit.  This will take a while as it appears I have to wait at least a week to see effects.

 

Dan

[exile360]

Do you have Fast Startup enabled in Windows by any chance?  The reason I ask is because it is known to cause issues sometimes with Malwarebytes and other software due to the fact that it doesn't allow the system to ever fully unload/re-load the registry and certain other system components as it normally would during a full system shutdown/reboot.

You'll find instructions on this page explaining how to check if it's on and how to disable it if it is.  Also, considering how infrequently the issue seems to be occurring, it's possible that this is being caused by some particular scheduled task that only runs on a weekly basis such as the scheduled WinSAT check that occurs on some Windows versions once per week (there are others I believe; that's just the only one I recall off the top of my head at the moment).  You might check Task Scheduler to see if there are any such tasks configured to run around the day/time that the issue is occurring as that may also provide a clue as to the root cause.

[Dan964]

I only recently enabled fast startup as part of my, lets change things and see what happens.  I will disable it.

 

The errors aren't infrequent.  They typically occur every login, especially after waking from sleep.  I was sure problem was solved after Event Viewer came clean after 1 week.  Don't know what happened, but back to square 1.

I'll keep you posted.

[exile360]

OK, thanks.  Also, please be aware that there is currently a known issue with the latest version of Malwarebytes which causes an error to be logged to the Event Viewer during system shutdown.  The team is aware of this and plan to have it fixed in the next release, however it has not been linked to any other issues such as the problems you've described with startup etc.

[hopper15]

12 hours ago, exile360 said:

OK, thanks.  Also, please be aware that there is currently a known issue with the latest version of Malwarebytes which causes an error to be logged to the Event Viewer during system shutdown.  The team is aware of this and plan to have it fixed in the next release, however it has not been linked to any other issues such as the problems you've described with startup etc.

You're talking the mbamservice.exe crashing if you reboot?

[exile360]

Yes, I believe so.  Basically it fails to shutdown cleanly during reboot/shutdown, causing an error to be logged in Event Viewer but it doesn't actually impact how Malwarebytes functions when the system is running nor does it have any impact on Windows aside from causing the error to be logged in Event Viewer.

[Dan964]

I have read that if Windows Defender detects another real time anti-virus, it will 'step aside'.  Is this true of MB?  Does it cause Defender to hand over the reins, so to speak?

I am not currently running MB.  I have gone 2 days without an error, I will wait 1 week.  When I restart MB I will do so without real time protection on, I will then phase in the various stages of protection.

Do you have a recommendation for which order I should use?  From least intrusive on up?

Thanks,

Dan

[exile360]

It's my understanding that Windows Defender will only disable itself if another product registers itself with the Windows Security Center/Action Center, which Malwarebytes does not do by default if its installer sees Windows Defender active on the system.  I believe that if you manually change the setting in Malwarebytes to have it register with Action Center/Security Center that Windows Defender will disable itself.

If Microsoft has changed this in any recent updates, then it may have changed, but it is my understanding that this is how it is supposed to work.

[Dan964]

Well, the critical errors are NOT caused by MB.  All the corruption errors are limited to MS Store apps I dont even use.  Not sure what's going on, but with MB not running, Win 10 still posted 19 errors related to 1 app.  I also suspect the Intel Optane memory, but HP doesn't as yet provide a way to disable it (according to techs it would take a BIOS patch) and I'm hesitant to use Intel's utility as they recommend using the OEM utilities.

It would be nice if the Win 10 Oct. update fixed this.

Sorry for any and all confusion I might have caused.

Dan

[exile360]

You could just physically remove the Intel Optane chip/SSD from the motherboard if you really want it disabled, assuming it isn't required for the system to boot (and it is my understanding that it shouldn't be required for booting; at least if it is being used to boost drive throughput as it was originally intended by Intel).  You might lose a bit of performance, but if it isn't stable with it then I'd personally just go without it.

[Dan964]

Its my understanding that the Optane memory needs to be flushed before its disabled so you don't lose anything.  HP documentation says the option to disable should be in the BIOS, with integrated Intel RST. I can't find it following instructions given.   I chatted with a tech and he concluded I need to wait for a BIOS update. I'm a bit confused, but will work it out. 

thanks for the help,

Dan

[exile360]

I found this post on Intel's support forums which may prove helpful.  I also did a search for disable optane and the results may be found here.  If you can't find the answers you need there you can try creating a topic on their forums to see if anyone else has experience with your specific device/setup and can help walk you through what needs to be done to disable/remove Optane.

[Dan964]

An update on my experience with MB and Win 10.  I disabled MB for 1 week and Critical Errors stopped.  Everything seemed normal.  I then re-enabled MB and Critical Errors started again.

I then set a 2 min (120 sec) delay into the startup of the RTP.  Critical errors stopped.  Its been over a week now.  (I have had to set a similar delay in my Win 8.1 machines as I found MB to interfere with Media Center recordings on return from sleep.)

So it seems there is some conflict possible on startup.  I should note that Fast Startup has been disabled during this time.

Dan

[exile360]

Thanks for the additional details on the issue.  Also, if you're still running the same build of Malwarebytes it may be worth trying the most recent build which may be found here.  It may resolve one or even all of the issues you've been experiencing without needing to resort to the delayed startup option.

If you do end up testing the latest build please let us know how it went and if any of the issues were resolved by it or not.

Thanks