TDK1044

Should I ditch Norton Internet Security?

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Hi Guys, I recently installed Malwarebytes 3.0 on my Widows 10 Laptop. It works perfectly, and I love how easy it is to use. This computer came with a pre-loaded Norton Internet Security product. The two software programs seem to run seamlessly alongside each other and I've had no issues, but my question is do I still need Norton when it appears that Malwarebytes does everything that Norton does and more? I'm not seeing any performance issues, I was just curious. Thanks.

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No.

MBAM does not do everything that Norton AV performs.

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3 hours ago, David H. Lipman said:

RandomCapeDude:

Just because it caused you problems in the past, does not mean it will cause the OP problems.

 

I agree, I have installed Norton products on 100's of computers along with Malwarebytes and have not had issues with them working together... granted I have always added mutual exceptions to both programs, not because they are needed but to be proactive.

I would leave Norton and MBAM installed along side each other.

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Since you're running Windows 10, I would uninstall Norton and use Windows Defender along with Malwarebytes 3.0.

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5 hours ago, David H. Lipman said:

No.

MBAM does not do everything that Norton AV performs.

Complete agreement!

And if there ever will be on my system any incompatibility between any version of Malwarebytes and Norton I always would delete Malwarebytes.

I would look for a substitute for Malwarebytes but not for Norton.

BTW Windows Defender isn't a patch on Norton.

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Thanks all for your responses. As I'm not having any issues running Norton and Malwarebytes side by side, I think I'll leave things just as they are.

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2 hours ago, Unicore said:

Since you're running Windows 10, I would uninstall Norton and use Windows Defender along with Malwarebytes 3.0.

Not what I would do, Norton has way better protection than Windows Defender... IMO Windows Defender / MSE is probably the lowest protection AV wise...

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"The greatest danger to your computer lies between the left ear and the right ear of the user ...." 

Practice safe computing ... think first!

The premium version of Malwarebytes will make your computer much safer.  Norton has its share of fans but I am not among them.

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10 hours ago, Unicore said:

The premium version of Malwarebytes will make your computer much safer.  Norton has its share of fans but I am not among them.

Look this thread about the safety of Malwarebytes.

Although Malwarebytes is basically a good program (except of its current bugs) the linked thread is an evidence not to use Malwarebytes as the only safety program.

It would be interesting, if version 2 doesn't detect the malware as well.

But with certainty I personally will not test that - I will not infect my PC deliberately.

Very instructively are also the scanning results in the link posted in the above named thread, especially concerning Windows Defender.

 

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The thread you reference is BS.

The so-called tester is not an authorative source and the testing is not described.

However he did post a Virus Total Report URL.

From that Report, we see;  First submission 2015-01-19 07:14:10 UTC ( 2 years, 1 month ago )

Well, it won't be detected by MBAM 'cause it is too old.  MBAM only targets new malware.  malware referred to as "Zero Day" malware.

MBAM is not an anti virus application and does not replace an an anti virus application.  MBAM is an adjunct, complimentary, anti malware application.
 
In its role as a adjunct, complimentary, anti malware application it has limitations in aspects that the anti virus application ( in this case, NAV ) performs in its role.
 
MBAM does not target script files. That means MBAM will not target; JS, JSE, PY, .HTML, HTA, VBS, VBE, .CLASS, SWF, SQL, BAT, CMD, PDF, PHP, WSF, etc.
It also does not target document files such as; PDF, DOC, DOCx, DOCm, XLS, XLSx, PPT, PPS, ODF, RTF, etc.
It also does not target media files;  MP3, WMV, JPG, GIF, etc.

Until MBAM, v1.75, MBAM could not access files in archives but with v1.75 came that ability so it can unarchive a Java Jar (which is a PKZip file) but it won't target the .CLASS files within. Same goes with CHM files (which is a PKZip file) but it doesn't target the HTML files within. MBAM v1.75 specifically will deal with; ZIP, RAR, 7z, CAB and MSI for archives. And self-Extracting; ZIP, 7z, RAR and NSIS executables (aka; SFX files).

MBAM specifically targets binaries that start with the first two characters being; MZ
They can be; EXE, CPL, SYS, DLL, SCR and OCX. Any of these files types can be renamed to be anything such as;  TXT, JPG, CMD and BAT and they will still be targeted just as long as the binary starts with 'MZ'.
 
MZ-binary.jpg

MBAM targets mainly non-viral malware.  The exception being a virus dropper ( a malware file that drops a virus and starts a virus infection but is not infected with the virus ) and worms ( such as Internet worms and AutoRun worms ).
 
MBAM is incapable of removing malicious code that has been prepended, appended or cavity injected into a legitimate file.  That means if a file infecting virus infects a legitimate file MBAM will be unable to remove the malicious code.  An anti virus application should be able to remove malicious code from an infected file and hopefully bring it back to its preinfected state.  Which may or may not return the file to its original, non infected, checksum value.
 
A file infecting virus will prepend, append or cavity inject malicious code into a legitimate file.  Once infected, that infected file can further the infection by infecting other legitimate files.
 
On the other hand there are trojans that will prepend, append or cavity inject malicious code into a legitimate file.   However that file can not infect other files.  The infection stops with that targeted file.  These files are either deemed to be "trojanized" or "patched".  Since MBAM can not remove the added malicious code, at best MBAM will try to replace the trojanized file with a legitimate, unaltered, file.
 
Where a traditional anti virus application is weak, MBAM is strong.  Today's malware is much more complex than 10 years ago.  When we saw the Melissa virus ( I-Worm via SMTP  ), Lovsan/Blaster worm (  I-Worm via RPC/RPCSS @ TCP port 135 ) etc, they were distributed for the effect, damage and bragging rights.  Today's malware is more sophisticated in that it is "all about the money".  Malicious actors use malware to profit from.  Either by stealing, distribution affiliation revenue, data exfiltration, personal identification impersonation, etc.  To effect that the malicious actors don't want the victim to know that their system was compromised or they are so blatant about it by generating advertisements,  Yesterday's malware was simple and less obtrusive.  Today's malware is very intrusive and makes numerous modifications to the Operating System.  Those numerous modifications to the Operating System is where the traditional anti virus application does poorly and where MBAM specializes.
 
MBAM is not a historical anti malware solution.  That means it will not target old malware.  It's intent is to target 0-Day malware.  Malware that is infecting computers Today with malware found in-the-wild, Today.  That means that something like the BugBear which infected years ago will not be targeted by MBAM.  Malwarebytes will actually cull their signature database for malware that is no longer seen in-the-wild Today.   This is why Malwarebytes requests samples that are submitted for detection consideration be no older than 3 months old.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, David H. Lipman said:

Well, it won't be detected by MBAM 'cause it is too old.  MBAM only targets new malware.  malware referred to as "Zero Day" malware.

Those 2 were detected with my install. Could be something wrong with his install or he is just expecting MB to detect it on download or when he opened the download folder. MB does not detect files that way. Also in addition to what David mentioned about file types.

Edited by Porthos

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@David H. Lipman and @Porthos

You are right, I don't contradict your statements.

But I tested it just before writing this reply:

Malwarebytes is still advertizing "MAKES ANTIVIRUS OBSOLETE", literal quote from that website: https://www.malwarebytes.com/

And they also didn't change this advertisement on the respective German website: "MACHT ANTIVIRUS HINFÄLLIG",  look here: https://de.malwarebytes.com.

"Macht Antivirus hinfällig" is the literal German translation of "Makes antivirus obsolete".

These advertising messages are according to their sense unambiguously contrary to your below quoted

statements: 

54 minutes ago, David H. Lipman said:

MBAM is not an anti virus application and does not replace an an anti virus application.  MBAM is an adjunct, complimentary, anti malware application.
 
In its role as a adjunct, complimentary, anti malware application it has limitations in aspects that the anti virus application ( in this case, NAV ) performs in its role.

In view of your above right statements Malwarebytes should change these wrong advertising messages as fast as possible.

Otherwise Malwarebytes comes under suspicion of dishonesty.

Sorry for these harsh words, but although I like Malwarebytes I can't come to another assessment.

Having said that I will not continue the discussion in this thread.

 

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22 hours ago, Unicore said:

Since you're running Windows 10, I would uninstall Norton and use Windows Defender along with Malwarebytes 3.0.

I agree - this would give you the best protection with the least aggrevation.  

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2 hours ago, GMork said:

Malwarebytes is still advertizing "MAKES ANTIVIRUS OBSOLETE", literal quote from that website: https://www.malwarebytes.com/

And they also didn't change this advertisement on the respective German website: "MACHT ANTIVIRUS HINFÄLLIG",  look here: https://de.malwarebytes.com.

"Macht Antivirus hinfällig" is the literal German translation of "Makes antivirus obsolete".

These advertising messages are according to their sense unambiguously contrary to your below quoted

I still think and sell Malwarebytes to my clients as a supplement to an Antivirus. I am not going to debate the marketing practices of the Malwarebytes corporation they are free to market their products any way they want to.

I will admit Malwarebytes does catch (when executed) the majority of (threats) most of my clients encounter.

David and I are well aware what an AV detects and what MB detects and unfortunately they are not all the same things.

I have no argument with you @GMorkthat the way it is advertised/marketed is misleading or misunderstood.

 

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Thanks for the detailed explanation of the inner working of MBAM 3.0x, much appreciated...

On 3/13/2017 at 10:00 AM, David H. Lipman said:

Where a traditional anti virus application is weak, MBAM is strong.

Conversely...

Where the MBAM is weak, the traditional anti virus is strong. For the most part... ;)

The issues with the current version of MBAM certainly necessitate the traditional anti virus. In my view other memory protection, like MS EMET, would not hurt either. I cannot trust MBAM 3.0x at this stage as a reliable solution, with its occasional hiccups, but I do hope they will resolve the issues in an expedited fashion.

 

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