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I am tired of fighting the editor. 

I just had a post I tried to reply to where I had to literally fight the Editor.  I could not paste Plain Text, I had no choice other than to hold down the Ctrl key and Right-Click and use that ridiculous dialogue. Then it didn't paste where I placed the cursor.

I couldn't highlight text and then Right-Click and choose "Cut" it did't exist.  I have to highlight the text and then hit Ctrl-X.  But then I couldn't simply paste it I have to hold down Ctrl and Right-Click and use that damn dialogue again and once again the text was placed in a position that was not of my choosing.  I couldn't even change Font Colour!

Even a reply to a reply in the same thread had the SAME editor issues.

But the same is NOT/was NOT experienced in this post.

I don't know if this is an artifact based upon whether the post is a reply, ore a reply to someone's text context.  I don't know and I do not care.

All I know is that I am tired of fighting this lousy forum's editor.

Malwarebytes was sold the bill of sale on this software and failed to perform due diligence in testing it out prior to deploying it.  it is like buying a used car and not taking it to a mechanic and having it inspected before purchase so you end up with a Lemon automobile "as-is".

This Forum software is a Lemon.

  • The Forum Administrators know it. 
  • The Malwarebytes' employees know it. 
  • The forum members know it. 
  • By now the management also knows it.

How many man-hours is going to be wasted on this crapware ?  Has anyone even performed a Cost Benefit Analysis on it ? 

I know I have wasted TOO MUCH time on it.  I have to ask myself "WHY" ?  Why am wasting my time on a forum where it is too difficult to work with.  What benefit do I gain ? 

High Blood Pressure is not a benefit.

I have seen only ONE benefit of this forum software.  That is I can resize any graphic attachment.  However it is greatly overshadowed by a laundry list of "I can't do..." this or that.

I have only seen ONE real improvement since deployment.  That is the application of a Horizontal Scroll bar to a Code Tagged segment so the code does not line-wrap.

The software is a lemon and the editor just plain sucks !

** The forum software is also spammer friendly !

Malwarebytes - The emperor is not wearing any clothes.

HINT:  I had to use another forum's editor to create the above line.
 

 

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+1

All of that, and then some.

Thanks for taking the time to provide the detailed feedback. It's quite frustrating (especially for us basic users) to properly explain the problems.

This has cost all of us who spend any significant time here trying to help users far too dearly.

Thanks for listening.

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Thanks for the very passionate and detailed feedback as always. As you know, we want to make sure the forums are functional and meeting the needs of all it's  users.

We are working on getting any and all issues resolved as quickly as possible. So please hang tight during this transition. I know it's very frustrating, just remember that everything will not be perfect overnight.

Again, thank you for keeping the feedback coming. 

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Thanks, @AlexSmith

The 3 big-ticket items are:

  1. Loss of BBCode support (the malware helpers and the rest of us who use a lot of formatted replies have spent years crafting that code, which enormously enhances our efficiency, consistency, and quality).  I have thus far been too stupid to get some of the workarounds to behave properly and I have yet to devise a way to save "new" canned "code" for later use, so it's a double-whammy. 
  2. The Editor (everything that Dave mentioned, that others have mentioned elsewhere and that may not yet have been reported) -- this goes far beyond "quirks" and "bugs" and altered workflow, it is seriously degraded functionality for a support forum, let alone a social media site.
  3. Loss of the "Preview Post" feature -- this is especially disruptive because of #1 and #2.  Providing all regular members the ability to edit their posts is NOT a solution. It only creates a new problem (the post-editing limits have been imposed over the years based on longstanding issues, not on the capricious whim of the forum team).
    1. When forum traffic surges in the future, e.g. after a major new program version release, the lifting of that restriction will come back to bite us all somewhere painful.
    2. It's a problem dealing with trolls and pirates.
    3. And it's always an issue for the malware helpers, who have to try to play whack-a-mole with OPs (both well-meaning and not), as posts are edited in the midst of a cleanup thread, faster than the helper can respond.

There are many, many others, both functional and cosmetic.
Some are annoyances (like the positively ridiculous double-line-space default, & the loss of the "View Last Post" button),  and others are just plain awful.

But these 3 cause the most harm.

Thanks again for listening,

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Do you need to bring in a Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma to tell you the cost of this Forum Software is too high ?

The Forum is here for information. 

People are infected with malware and they want information on how to remove it.

People are here because they don't understand malware.  The public is under the false impression that everything is a virus.  They don't understand "exploitation" in the realm of computers and that Social Engineering is the Human Exploit.  That software vulnerabilities can lead to malware infections.  They don't understand why the exist, how the exist or how they are manifested.

People are here because they want to get support on Malwarebytes products.

Education is the tool.  Malala Yousafzai said...

{ paraphrased } One Teacher, One Book and One pen can change the world. 

Underlying that is Education.  We educate through language.  The forum is called a "forum" because it is a gathering place of public and private expression.  We express ourselves through words.  Those words are augmented by writing formalities and graphics.

This forum software is hindering that ability to convey one's thoughts and expressions because its User Interface is poorly conceived, the editor doesn't work and is too limited and the software doesn't serve the content.

 

 

 

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I joined a lot of forums and also build one myself, used also many with the so called WYSIWYG editor but all of them have a button on the display of the editor wich says 

SWITCH EDITOR MODE   that  is important, because when you added that one a user can decide for himself wich mode he wants to create his or her text.

any forum software has the possibility to activate this switch editor so hope you can change this for everyone asap. 

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Quote

Marcin as Root Admin always wanted this basic program (MBAM) to succeed and keep it as simple to use as it could be, but in first early versions like 1.30 and up to 1.75, it had a few flaws (as it still has).

My above quote not only relates to the program, but also to the forum, and presentation. The "reasonably" Simple to Use Forum has gone out the door, so I expect that all of the time wasted here means the Basic MBAM Program is going backwards, as those trying to fix it should be working on the Program Only, not this (soon to be) wasted board.

  /\ Still Auto Double Spaces, and at least David H Lipman and I agree on something for a change. If you paid for this, you purchased a Lemon ..  now make lemonade. The list of Staff and other employed people in that large building must include the talent to fix or make your own Forum, and there are enough examples given.

And it needs a TESTING area near the bottom (see Bleeping Computer board) as it will be used quite often by helpers and Experts alike.............

Sorry but still not one positive thing to say (except excuses from above) about this. If we started here OK :blink:, but this is ?? New Improved ?? (Not).
Comments are "General", and not directed to any one person, but, take it as written.
Note that I am an older person, but even I can see silly coding / wasted input / useless features / missing features / basics that should have been included / and it is a Lemon -

-  All views are my personal only -

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The forum is challenging right now, and I am being polite.  However, there is no relation between people tasked with getting the forums working properly and those writing code for Malwarebytes products, and there is no correlation between the product and the forum other than the topics being discussed.  There is little (or less) chance that Malwarebytes will go into the forum software business.  That's not what we do.  That is what the vendor for this forum does, and they are working with Malwarebytes to get this thing fixed.  They cannot wave a magic wand, and a new version of the forums may require more effort than a dot release of the old version to restore the functionality that users are accustomed to.  Constructive comments are always of value, though I realize that ya just gotta vent sometimes (not that I ever do that :rolleyes:).  I can walk over to the forum admin tasked with this and give him my comments directly, so you don't see mine here.  I want this to be easier to use, as you do.  It will be...we just don't know exactly how long that will take.

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Agree Micheal, but please look from the users point of view.

We had a "reasonable setup" and this is not "better" ..........

Also my last post went South ?? where I said "General" and added My views only-

Sorry if anybody took any post of mine as being personal, as they were never meant to be : Back in a few days to see if ??

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56 minutes ago, gonzo said:

The forum is challenging right now, and I am being polite.  However, there is no relation between people tasked with getting the forums working properly and those writing code for Malwarebytes products, and there is no correlation between the product and the forum other than the topics being discussed.  There is little (or less) chance that Malwarebytes will go into the forum software business.  That's not what we do.  That is what the vendor for this forum does, and they are working with Malwarebytes to get this thing fixed.  They cannot wave a magic wand, and a new version of the forums may require more effort than a dot release of the old version to restore the functionality that users are accustomed to.  Constructive comments are always of value, though I realize that ya just gotta vent sometimes (not that I ever do that :rolleyes:).  I can walk over to the forum admin tasked with this and give him my comments directly, so you don't see mine here.  I want this to be easier to use, as you do.  It will be...we just don't know exactly how long that will take.

+1

I sure hope this is sorted out in time for the next major program version.
Forum traffic will spike exponentially, as it always does (here and at any software support forum).

We (volunteers and staffers) will need to be able to provide prompt, accurate, consistent, properly-formatted support to many users. 
We will not have time to deal with forum functionality issues.

Thanks for helping with this,

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David said out loud what pretty much every helpers have been thinking since the upgrade to the new forum software, and DD also pinned down correctly the main issues with that new software. I may not be a regular helper on Malwarebytes Forums, other than a Malware Hunter, but I do wish to become one once I get the proper prerequisites. This being said, it is from experience on other IPS and non-IPS forums that I can tell that I know how the current helpers feels toward IPS4. It is quite obvious that this version cannot be used for a forum which is in fact a support platform, and not a discussion forum. While I do not place the blame on Malwarebytes for upgrading to it (since I understand the reasons behind it), I must say that there should have been a general meeting with all the active helpers concerning that upgrade (and as far as I'm aware, there have been none beforehand). You can be sure that if a such meeting/discussion had taken place, none of the helpers would have agreed to it. I for one, sure wouldn't have.

I honestly respect David for speaking his mind like he did, since I believe he's possibly the only person here to be able to do so "freely". I'm taking his side, and therefore at the same time, the side of all the helpers here. If you want these forums to remain a support platform via the contribution of volunteers, you need to give them the right tools to do so. I don't think any of them care for "new features", "new look", "new design" and such. All they care about, is being able to assist others in the most efficient way possible. This is what makes them volunteers. They care for the company and they care for it's customers and therefore, they should have been briefed beforehand and been allowed to have their say in that matters.

Anyway, the upgrade is done, and there's nothing we can do about it. All we can do now, is hope that Malwarebytes' team will be able to address/solve all the issues that have been reported so far to make this forum easier for the helpers (and even general members) to use, and that in the future, they'll pay more attention to what the people giving their own free time, experience and knowledge to make this forum great, have to say and their opinion when it concerns this forum.

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And now, some "data".

I hope @kevinf80 won't mind, but I was appalled to see what the editor did to one of his normally beautifully formatted, carefully crafted, effective, clear replies.

This used to be a work of art and a thing of beauty. Now it is a mess, thanks entirely to the editor.

We regular helpers use canned code, too.

But the highly dedicated, mostly VOLUNTEER MALWARE HELPERS vitally depend on this practice every day in every support topic. It is their lifeblood here.

The lost time and effort needed to reconstitute ALL of this work-product is immeasurable.
Time spent having to fix things that were not broken until after this supposed upgrade could be better spent delivering support, as David pointed out in his original post.

Thank you again for listening.

2-2016-03-26_19-48-21.png

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4 minutes ago, Khadijah said:

preview post is gone too

 

Yes, this was noted during beta-testing and has been mentioned several times by several users in many posts in this forum, including in my reply earlier in this thread here.

It's not directly an "editor" problem, but the dysfunctional editor makes having "Preview Post" all the more important.

Thanks,

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1 hour ago, daledoc1 said:

Yes, this was noted during beta-testing and has been mentioned several times by several users in many posts in this forum, including in my reply earlier in this thread here.

It's not directly an "editor" problem, but the dysfunctional editor makes having "Preview Post" all the more important.

Thanks,

Just to clarify, the not having "Post Preview" is only currently an issue if you are attempting to post using just BBCode. If you are copying rich content or using the toolbar buttons to create your post content, then you will see that the editor provides a realtime look of the final content.

To help users that post exclusively with BBCode, we enabled the ability to edit your post. Not ideal, but it was the only option available.

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I'm sorry that's a myopic viewpoint that stems from a lack of experience in dealing with repetitive problems.

I have been on Usenet for quite a long time.  For those who do not know, Email and Usenet are two of the oldest segments of the Internet.

Microsoft had its own NNTP Server and its own Usenet Hierarchy, Microsoft.* and thus the Microsoft.* hierarchy was carried on all NNTP Servers world-wide.

It was then Microsoft MVPs found it to be extremely valuable to use template responses based upon the fact the issues are posted, re-posted and regurgitated over and over.  A template response saves valuable time and at most it may need tweaking based upon the situation at hand.  It makes no sense to recreate the text over and over.  That is what templates are for.  One may use a template in MS Word for Letterhead.  One may use a template in MS Excel for billing.  One may use a template in PowerPoint for organizational standards for presentations.  Likewise this and other forums use template responses based upon the early works of those supporting Microsoft products on Usenet.  It is a tried and true methodology.  There are standard "canned responses" that are organizational driven.

Post Preview and BBCode Mode were required functionalities to create, work with and tweak these templates.

That alone should have been reason to negate the use of this Forum Software.  I even hinted at that BEFORE the new Forum software was implemented.

Face it, you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  At some point Malwarebytes must acquiesce to the conclusion that this software is costing them more ( I do not just mean in a monetary sense ) than the software is worth.

As with the above video...  "You can't fix this Spicoli"

 

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1 hour ago, AlexSmith said:

Just to clarify, the not having "Post Preview" is only currently an issue if you are attempting to post using just BBCode. If you are copying rich content or using the toolbar buttons to create your post content, then you will see that the editor provides a realtime look of the final content.

To help users that post exclusively with BBCode, we enabled the ability to edit your post. Not ideal, but it was the only option available.

No, sorry.

I agree with Dave and all the others.

The WYSIWG does NOT work properly or fully.

As I tried to explain my earlier reply, the 3 issues are intertwined: loss of BBCode, awful editor, and loss of "Preview Post".

Those of us -- volunteer helpers, malware helpers, staff -- who post complex, formatted replies are severely hampered by the combined effects of these 3 regressions.

And, no, as was also explained earlier, allowing regular members to edit does NOT solve the problem. It merely creates a new one. HMs and above already have post-editing capability. It is an inadequate workaround for 3 major functional workflow issues. EDIT: And it is circular reasoning to tell the poster to "edit" a post when the darn editor does not work properly, to begin with.

Allowing even regular members to edit creates havoc with trolls, spammers, pirates, binge-posters and even well-meaning, "basic" forum users and OPs who don't understand that this is NOT an instant messaging service or that changing their posts on the fly makes it impossible for the helper to keep up. Just ask the malware helpers.

The minimum post-count to edit was put in place based on real-life experiences here with all those sorts of users, not to censor. Removing the restriction to "solve" more pressing problems that need direct solutions will invoke the law of unintended consequences. Having been here as long as I have, I wish I were wrong, but I suspect I am not.

Sorry, @AlexSmith. This critique is not directed at you. But in the rush to defend the forum software devs for a job well-done, I respectfully ask that you and the other team members try to maintain a bit of perspective and context about what a support forum does and how it works, and about the people who dedicate countless hours to contribute.

Thanks for listening.

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I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying the editor doesn't have issues nor that being able to Edit a post is the complete solve for this. I was attempting to point out that the issues with the limited and sometimes broken BBCode support and the inability to preview a BBCode based post are the same thing. In cases were one is just using the toolbar and the realtime preview, things fair better and you technically have a "post preview" like experience. Again, that doesn't help in the cases where BBCode is being used, since you really do need to know what that will look like before posting and today we do not have that option.

We understand that isn't a good experience for a lot of users and the only option we had was to open up the option to Edit your post until we can get improvements made to the editor. I nor the rest of the forums team feel like that was the best solution, but it was the only option we had that helped out, even if just a little bit.

I hope everyone knows that we hear everything you are saying and are actively working on solutions to all of this. Please continue to hang tight with us during this difficult situation.

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The helpers at the MB Forum do more than provide immediate help. Whatever needs to be done (including changing or reverting the software) to further their efforts, should be done. I'm not saying efforts aren't being made. I am accentuating the importance of the contributors and their 'work-space'.

Marcin Kleczynski :

 

Quote

.....Tell us about the process of taking community feedback and putting it into your software.

Marcin: We receive community feedback and implement it within two to six hours. We have two sub-forums as part of our larger forum called “False positives” and “Malware contribution”. False positives are a big deal so if we have a researcher online and working at the moment the report comes in, it is typically answered within an hour. Say, for some reason we’re detecting Microsoft Office as malware, someone will report this on the forum and an hour or two later after verifying the false positive we’ll update a new database.

On the other sub-forum, as the name indicates, users can report anything we’re missing and we’ll download it, run it through our automated tools, do as much research on it as we can, and push out an update once we’ve figured it out. These are our users who are reporting malware so we act as quickly as possible. We know some of them might be managing huge networks of hundreds or thousands of computers so speed is important.

Now we’re actually about 50 people strong. These people are working full-time on things like support, sales, forum moderation. I was doing all of this by myself when I first started. Over time the forum started looking a bit loaded, so I optimized some things here and there -- merging some forums, improving descriptions, deleting inactive or spam accounts. I could have handed all this to someone else, but I feel the community is such a critical part of what we’re doing, it’s important to be involved.....

http://www.techspot.com/article/581-malwarebytes-marcin-kleczynski-interview/

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44 minutes ago, AlexSmith said:

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying.

I hope everyone knows that we hear everything you are saying and are actively working on solutions to all of this. Please continue to hang tight with us during this difficult situation.

Fair enough.
I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I know you and the rest of the team and management are working hard on this.

I hope that the forum Team and management will advocate most vociferously with IPS on behalf of the forum and its dedicated members.
4 pages of problems in 5 days speaks volumes.
Many other members -- for whatever reason -- likely lurk in the "silent majority".

I remain puzzled, however, by the circumstances:

  • Support for IPS 3.4 does not end until 2017. So the upgrade seems to have been rushed.
  • This is not the first or only forum to experience such a mess. IPS could/should have fixed the major software problems first.
  • Most of the big issues would have been identified during a proper, real-world beta-test. The upgrade could have been postponed until they were fixed.
  • Justifiable inertia may have compelled management to proceed with a "devil I know" vs. "devil I don't know" upgrade.  However, this feels like a "no bid" contract.  No other forum in which I participate ("old" style or "new" style") endures even a fraction of the issues we have had with IPS 4.  IOW, there WERE and ARE other options.

This all emits a whiff of the recent major OS "upgrade" foisted on its customers by a certain company HQ'd in Redmond, WA.

<OK, generalized rant off. But I reserve the right to report additional bugs, glitches and problems.:D>

Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend, @AlexSmith

 

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