reflow or bad motherboard or something else

[nachobear]

the laptop has power but nothing appears on the screen, I switched the memory sticks around so its not them and I tried to hook the laptop to an external monitor and nothing appears so  I want to see what is going on and if i need to do a reflow or a reball is there a permanent way to do it?

[David H. Lipman]

I'm sorry but, your post makes no sense.

 

"reflow" or a "reball"  ?

[CWB]

yeppers ... you can try to reflow the solder on the graphics processor ... this is not a task for the uninitiated .

in and of itself , reflow soldering is a *permanent fix* .

if you mean to test the GPU by applying pressure and see if the video returns then you will have to tear the laptop down and dummy everything up ...

again , this is not an easy task .

 

reflow/reballing is a touchy process ... if you do not have a temperature limited heat gun with a tight pattern , you can do much damage to the MB .

once the solder is up to temperature , applying pressure and keeping the GPU in alignment is crucial .

if anything slips , full removal of the GPU , cleanup and alignment/soldering is the only fix .

the alignment is critical ... if you are off by .01 inches ... forget it .

 

i have seen a few of those reflow/reball videos on youtube ... many of these skip over the important stuff .

they make it sound easy to do ... this is simply not the case .

 

what is the make and model of the laptop ?

[nachobear]

I'm sorry but, your post makes no sense.

 

"reflow" or a "reball"  ?

 

reflow/reball is a process to fix weak solder on a gpu that has been seperated from the motherboard reflow and reball methods are different though

[nachobear]

yeppers ... you can try to reflow the solder on the graphics processor ... this is not a task for the uninitiated .

in and of itself , reflow soldering is a *permanent fix* .

if you mean to test the GPU by applying pressure and see if the video returns then you will have to tear the laptop down and dummy everything up ...

again , this is not an easy task .

 

reflow/reballing is a touchy process ... if you do not have a temperature limited heat gun with a tight pattern , you can do much damage to the MB .

once the solder is up to temperature , applying pressure and keeping the GPU in alignment is crucial .

if anything slips , full removal of the GPU , cleanup and alignment/soldering is the only fix .

the alignment is critical ... if you are off by .01 inches ... forget it .

 

i have seen a few of those reflow/reball videos on youtube ... many of these skip over the important stuff .

they make it sound easy to do ... this is simply not the case .

 

what is the make and model of the laptop ?

 

it is a hp tx2000

 

so there is no way to test if the motherboard is bad or if its the gpu or something else?

[David H. Lipman]

reflow/reball is a process to fix weak solder on a gpu that has been seperated from the motherboard reflow and reball methods are different though

Since such modules are usually wave soldered and now we have RoHS regulations, I think that would not work out well.  Such is also a draconian action.  Depending on the system, a swap out of a video module would be more apropos to trying to resolder, manually, what is too small to do properly.  The simple act of applying heat may delaminate the copper traces off the board.

[CWB]

i thought that model sounded familiar ...

there have been problems with the/a couple of models of this particular family of GPUs used in different laptops (makes and models) .

here is just one *discussion* :

http://www.nvidiadefect.com/the-death-of-my-hp-tx2000-t2576.html

a google search using "tx2000 graphics processor" or similar terms using "dead" , "no video" (etc) will produce many results .

i do not know the current status of any legal actions/remedies ... do some checking .

 

again , i am not saying it is impossible to reflow or remove and replace the gpu with a new IC and then reflow solder it to the MB ... however ...

i have been at the electronic repair gig for about 40 years , and i have reflowed many ICs and completely replaced IC packages with 200+ pins (hand soldering) .

i have some "specialized equipment" that one simply needs in order to help assure a "working outcome" .

all the equipment in the world will not help if one does not have the skill sets in place to start with .

(give a rookie a box of dynamite and a fist-full of crimp style blasting caps and the results tend to be a wee bit on the disastrous side)

 

you might try looking for someone to do the job for you .

the laptop will have to be stripped down and put back together ... the job is relatively labor intensive .

you will have to weigh carefully whether or not you want to try a repair or invest that money you would have spent in a new machine .

[nachobear]

i thought that model sounded familiar ...

there have been problems with the/a couple of models of this particular family of GPUs used in different laptops (makes and models) .

here is just one *discussion* :

http://www.nvidiadefect.com/the-death-of-my-hp-tx2000-t2576.html

a google search using "tx2000 graphics processor" or similar terms using "dead" , "no video" (etc) will produce many results .

i do not know the current status of any legal actions/remedies ... do some checking .

 

again , i am not saying it is impossible to reflow or remove and replace the gpu with a new IC and then reflow solder it to the MB ... however ...

i have been at the electronic repair gig for about 40 years , and i have reflowed many ICs and completely replaced IC packages with 200+ pins (hand soldering) .

i have some "specialized equipment" that one simply needs in order to help assure a "working outcome" .

all the equipment in the world will not help if one does not have the skill sets in place to start with .

(give a rookie a box of dynamite and a fist-full of crimp style blasting caps and the results tend to be a wee bit on the disastrous side)

 

you might try looking for someone to do the job for you .

the laptop will have to be stripped down and put back together ... the job is relatively labor intensive .

you will have to weigh carefully whether or not you want to try a repair or invest that money you would have spent in a new machine .

what is IC?

 

I wish of buying another machine but this machine is important because it has my files, bookmarks and additional user accounts

 

what I want to know mainly is, are there permanent fixes and how to tell if its the videocard or the motherboard or something else

[David H. Lipman]

That's funny.

 

You throw out "reflow" and "reball" expecting all your readers to understand the "jargon" or terminology.

 

IC stands for Integrated Circuit.

 

This is why "best practice" is to assume the audience does NOT understand what you are talking about and you layout everything in text.  There you would define terminology or industry jargon that is to be used in the document.

 

For example:  If I was talking about Internet Worms and used email as an example of the Internet method of autonomous replication, I will mention the use of the Simple Mail Transport Protocol (SMTP).

 

I can later use the acronym SMTP later in the document because I have already defined it.

 

 

what I want to know mainly is, are there permanent fixes and how to tell if its the videocard or the motherboard or something else

 

You never defined what this notebook is and maybe the video module can be simply replaced.  Some notebook vendors give video choices for some of their systems.  When they do, the video module is replaceable.

 

-

 

PS:  I too make this mistake and sometimes I assume all of the audience has knowledge of the subject matter when not all of them do. 

[nachobear]

That's funny.

 

You throw out "reflow" and "reball" expecting all your readers to understand the "jargon" or terminology.

 

IC stands for Integrated Circuit.

 

This is why "best practice" is to assume the audience does NOT understand what you are talking about and you layout everything in text.  There you would define terminology or industry jargon that is to be used in the document.

 

For example:  If I was talking about Internet Worms and used email as an example of the Internet method of autonomous replication, I will mention the use of the Simple Mail Transport Protocol (SMTP).

 

I can later use the acronym SMTP later in the document because I have already defined it.

 

 

 

You never defined what this notebook is and maybe the video module can be simply replaced.  Some notebook vendors give video choices for some of their systems.  When they do, the video module is replaceable.

 

-

 

PS:  I too make this mistake and sometimes I assume all of the audience has knowledge of the subject matter when not all of them do. 

the notebook is a tx2000 hp and that, I am guessing the video module is the graphics card?

 

I didn't understand your 2nd to last post which is the 6th post, but at least you admit to the mistake,  like the one I did

[David H. Lipman]

The only way to learn from your mistakes is to admit that one makes mistakes.  I make mistakes all the time.  I am doing my damn best to learn from them.

 

You are in luck !   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmsHH4a4D7Q

 

 

Published on Jan 21, 2013

In this video I repair an HP TX2000 suffering from the dreaded overheating Nvidia GPU

 

[nachobear]

The only way to learn from your mistakes is to admit that one makes mistakes.  I make mistakes all the time.  I am doing my damn best to learn from them.

 

You are in luck !   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmsHH4a4D7Q

 

 

I found that vid today as well, but yes I think that link should be on this thread, but the thing is I am unsure about installing the gpu with reflow or getting another motherboard, because this is a link that got me worried about the video card http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18016 

 

thank you David

[David H. Lipman]

I wouldn't worry.  I looked at that referenced thread.  I am writing this on a Dell Latitude D620 notebook that I have had since 2009.

 

Yes, there was a situation where the secret sauce for Electrolytic Capacitors was stolen.  Only the secret sauce turned out to be a failed batch recipe so the one who who sole the recipe created bad Electrolytic Capacitors.  As each day, month and year passes that issue become less and less of an issue.

 

Get the part.  Follow the video.  Make the repair.  Just take your time mentally recording what you did to take it apart so you understand how to put it together.  Put all screws in a small pill bottle or some small receptacle so they don't get lost.

[CWB]

i have been very busy the last two days ... uuuggghhh .

 

"so there is no way to test if the motherboard is bad or if its the gpu or something else?"

i explained in my post how to check the GPU IC ... by applying pressure to it while the machine is tore apart and "hooked together" to make it run .

this is difficult as one needs to make sure that the CPU cooler is still attached/working .

 

the major problem with the video/graphics on these units was the failure of the GPU IC (it is not a card) .

it ran so hot that many of them would become "un-soldered" (develop bad connections) ... this is why pressing on the IC itself might restore the video .

in other cases , the GPU became so hot that it was ruined/destroyed ... there are no external indications of this , they look perfectly normal .

 

i have seen a video on youtube of a guy using a heat gun and an aluminum foil shield ...

here is a link that explains the procedure and shows what the GPU actually is :

http://www.laptoprepair101.com/fix-laptop-motherboard-with-failed-nvidia-graphics-chip/

while this can work ... it can cause more problems , as have been outlined above .

 

the video link that was posted above (joenathan ... i thought it was spelled "jonhathan" ?) has a few errors in it .

for example , when he places the motherboard across the laptop bottom half to unscrew the heat pipe/sink and flexes the board three things can happen :

traces/components can "crack" (the motherboard is multi-layered)

his screwdriver has a good chance of slipping and causing damage

when the motherboard flexes or slides around , the fine copper traces on the back can be gouged/cut and components broken ... even though there is a protective film on the back (solder mask) .

 

this is what i meant by "having the skill set" ...

if you do not know the basics and how to prevent damaging a piece of equipment , your chances of turning a repair into a disaster are very high .

it is videos like these that give rookies a false sense of security and success .

[nachobear]

I wouldn't worry.  I looked at that referenced thread.  I am writing this on a Dell Latitude D620 notebook that I have had since 2009.

 

Yes, there was a situation where the secret sauce for Electrolytic Capacitors was stolen.  Only the secret sauce turned out to be a failed batch recipe so the one who who sole the recipe created bad Electrolytic Capacitors.  As each day, month and year passes that issue become less and less of an issue.

 

Get the part.  Follow the video.  Make the repair.  Just take your time mentally recording what you did to take it apart so you understand how to put it together.  Put all screws in a small pill bottle or some small receptacle so they don't get lost.

sorry been busy, I wanted to do the motherboard switch before but still I don't want to really take the risk on the solder melting again if thats the case for the laptop, though whats been scaring me was on how to take it apart

[nachobear]

i have been very busy the last two days ... uuuggghhh .

 

"so there is no way to test if the motherboard is bad or if its the gpu or something else?"

i explained in my post how to check the GPU IC ... by applying pressure to it while the machine is tore apart and "hooked together" to make it run .

this is difficult as one needs to make sure that the CPU cooler is still attached/working .

 

the major problem with the video/graphics on these units was the failure of the GPU IC (it is not a card) .

it ran so hot that many of them would become "un-soldered" (develop bad connections) ... this is why pressing on the IC itself might restore the video .

in other cases , the GPU became so hot that it was ruined/destroyed ... there are no external indications of this , they look perfectly normal .

 

i have seen a video on youtube of a guy using a heat gun and an aluminum foil shield ...

here is a link that explains the procedure and shows what the GPU actually is :

http://www.laptoprepair101.com/fix-laptop-motherboard-with-failed-nvidia-graphics-chip/

while this can work ... it can cause more problems , as have been outlined above .

 

the video link that was posted above (joenathan ... i thought it was spelled "jonhathan" ?) has a few errors in it .

for example , when he places the motherboard across the laptop bottom half to unscrew the heat pipe/sink and flexes the board three things can happen :

traces/components can "crack" (the motherboard is multi-layered)

his screwdriver has a good chance of slipping and causing damage

when the motherboard flexes or slides around , the fine copper traces on the back can be gouged/cut and components broken ... even though there is a protective film on the back (solder mask) .

 

this is what i meant by "having the skill set" ...

if you do not know the basics and how to prevent damaging a piece of equipment , your chances of turning a repair into a disaster are very high .

it is videos like these that give rookies a false sense of security and success .

what do you mean by not the card?

I am guessing you are warning me on if I do this reflow myself

[David H. Lipman]

nachobear:

There is no need to quote everything of the previous poster.  Just reply to their post.  If you need to quote, just quote the specific paragraph or sentence.
 
Looking back through this thread one sees excessive quoting.

[CWB]

"what do you mean by not the card?

I am guessing you are warning me on if I do this reflow myself"

 

terminology and lost in translation :

there is no video card ... as one would think a card of being (full of little parts and chunks and then plugged into a "slot") .

the model of motherboard you have uses a GPU (graphics processor unit) IC (integrated circuit) ... it is about 1.5 inches square and looks like a metal postage stamp .

i am attempting to make you aware of what is involved with these problems and fixes so that you can make a better decision about what to do .

[nachobear]

don't worry cwb I know you mean well

 

ok sounds weird and silly but I still can't decide what to do, I thought about the switching out motherboard thing david but I still think it will give me the problem again

 

that's why these links got me the idea to switch to better motherboard or perhaps do a reball or reflow

 

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/threads/tx2000-cpu-motherboard-upgrade.20031/

http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/453038-permanent-fix-m1330-gpu-issues.html

[nachobear]

theres also the option to drill a hole and put a bolt in the video card http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-122389-my-hp-tx2000-will-not-turn-back-on

 

 

this link talks about lead and non lead stuff http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18016

http://www.computerrepairtips.net/how-to-reflow-a-laptop-motherboard/   there is a talk about lead free and leaded

[CWB]

drilling a hole in the laptop casing and putting a screw in place to put pressure on the GPU IC (again ...this is not a "video" card !) is at best a lousy fix and you can bet it will be temporary .

there was mention of the "test" for the GPU becoming un-soldered that i mentioned previously .

the true fix is to re-flow the GPU IC .

 

lead-free vs leaded solders ...

i have been soldering for 40+ years and do not have "elevated levels of lead" .

i suppose you could wind up in trouble if you ground the stuff up into a powder and snorted it .

to put it bluntly , lead-free solders are not user friendly to work with ... they do not flow and wet as nicely as leaded solders .

 

getting another "rebuilt" (aka : reflowed) motherboard will require the purchase of a copy and/or key of an OS .

[nachobear]

i wanted to possibly get another motherboard but there was talk about getting intel gpu card,

 

I thought the OS info would be left in the harddrive not the motherboard, guess i was wrong

[CWB]

simply defined :

a particular OS is "registered" to a particular motherboard when it is installed ... that is the string of numbers called the "coa/activation code" .

every copy of an OS has a unique "serial number" .

motherboards have an identifying code "embedded" in them ... every board is unique .

 

there are certain versions of an OS that are capable of being installed on more than one machine ... however ...

in the case of consumer laptops it is "one version per motherboard" (as it comes from the factory) .

one can restore the factory OS but this requires some hoop-jumping and the blessings of the manufacturer (and money) .

by the time it is all said and done ... grabbing a download-able copy of W7 for about $70 is a faster and easier way to go .

[nachobear]

wow more expensive to get another motherboard then, because it needs another OS

 

in your pc exp, is it possible to take out my old gpu and put an upgrade it if the gpu is bad?

 

also thought about the putting in an external video card but that doesn't make sense since you have to bring the external card around so the laptop is not portable

[CWB]

it is not practical to "upgrade" the gpu for several reasons :

it has to match the electrical connections that are on the motherboard

the bios/firmware and software has to support the particular gpu that is installed

replacement of/with the same part number is the way to go .

 

an external video card is not practical ... no pci connections for it .

 

the practical solutions are :

replace the motherboard and the OS

attempt reflow of the GPU (and then buy a new motherboard when it is ruined) .

 

you can buy a new , refurbished or "good working pull" motherboard and load a linux operating system on it ...

this is a free operating system but it will not run programs designed for windows .